Brexit

DML wrote:

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:

Garth wrote:A hard border is simply not going to work in Northern Ireland (if anyone doesn't understand this they are either uninformed or dreaming) so someone is going to have to eventually make a decision and piss people off, or magically come up with a solution that somehow makes everyone happy. Any ideas?

Yeah 2

Idea 1: Ireland becomes one country
Idea 2: We all stay in the customs union etc.

Idea 3: Brexit collapses.

Idea 4: hard Brexit and strike a trade deal with Papa New Guinea.

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:

bear wrote:

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:

Photek wrote:I understand you want Grimsby to suffer but Northern Ireland voted to remain.

So did lots of places, but you can't have part of a country in and part of a country out, it needs to be all or none.

Agreed, not sure why the DUP are trying to stop that.

Sorry I meant the UK, we all need to be in the customs union, market etc. or all need to be out.

If NI is in but the rest isn't then all that will happen is gooseberry fool loads of companies will be based there and the rest of the UK gets strawberry floated.

Personally I think the whole UK should be in it as it is the best of a bunch of bad options as gooseberry fool canning it is unlikely, but I don't think it would be right that NI is left in while we all suffer. Either they leave the UK and become part of Ireland or they are out like the rest of us, or we are in with them.

I was just making a bad United Ireland joke.

DML wrote:

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:

Garth wrote:A hard border is simply not going to work in Northern Ireland (if anyone doesn't understand this they are either uninformed or dreaming) so someone is going to have to eventually make a decision and piss people off, or magically come up with a solution that somehow makes everyone happy. Any ideas?

Yeah 2

Idea 1: Ireland becomes one country
Idea 2: We all stay in the customs union etc.

Idea 3: Brexit collapses.

The best outcome for all.

BTW, There is huge pressure on Leo Varadkar to get this right, we have to agree to a deal that will stand for generations.

Garth wrote:

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:

Garth wrote:A hard border is simply not going to work in Northern Ireland (if anyone doesn't understand this they are either uninformed or dreaming) so someone is going to have to eventually make a decision and piss people off, or magically come up with a solution that somehow makes everyone happy. Any ideas?

Yeah 2

Idea 1: Ireland becomes one country
Idea 2: We all stay in the customs union etc.

Neither of those will make everyone happy though.

1. Unionists across the UK are raging.
2. Brexiteers are raging.

No outcome will make everyone happy so happiness it irrelevant it is about what is practical and having part of the UK in and part out is no workable and is just going to as Laga said have gooseberry fool loads of companies have tiny offices there to take advantage of it.

Either the whole of the UK is in, or the whole of the UK is out you can't pick and choose which bits are in based on how much of a ballache them being out is.

Looks like the penny has finally dropped on alot of people that Ireland is complicated!

Tell Karl his brother is dead wrote:I don't think you should take your anger out on other majority Remain areas. "If they can have it we should too" is absolutely fair, but "they shouldn't have it because I can't" is a form of the same selfish rhetoric that's behind the rise of far-right policies in the first place.

Everything comes down to selfishness one way or another.

But it’s absolutely not right that one part of the UK gets a special EU deal while the rest of us suffer.

I don’t want to leave at all. If we have to then every part of the UK should be treated the same. Northern Ireland should either suffer with us, or unify with the Republic.

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/937720837603504129

Strangely it turns out when you bung a load of racists to form a government...it has consequences!

This is absolutely brilliant. Scary, but brilliant.

twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/937718845573394432

I don’t agree that Wales and Scotland etc are in the same position as Northern Ireland, they don’t share a border with the EU.

Astounding!

Photek wrote:I don’t agree that Wales and Scotland etc are in the same position as Northern Ireland, they don’t share a border with the EU.

That's simply geographically convenient! I wouldn't want another part of the same country I'm in to get special dispensation to be in the single market if I have to suffer!

Strong statement from Leo there. Agreement was in place and then Theresa asked for ‘more time’ after talking to Arlene Foster.

Photek wrote:I don’t agree that Wales and Scotland etc are in the same position as Northern Ireland, they don’t share a border with the EU.

What if we just made the Republic operate under the same rules as the UK?

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:But it’s absolutely not right that one part of the UK gets a special EU deal while the rest of us suffer.

I don’t want to leave at all. If we have to then every part of the UK should be treated the same. Northern Ireland should either suffer with us, or unify with the Republic.

Do you disagree with any of the following?

NI remains in the single market:
Pros
+ 2 million people in NI benefit directly from single market membership
+ Rest of the UK benefits economically from a back door into the single market
+ Slippery slope leading to possible membership for Scotland, then Wales, then London, then maybe even the rest of England deciding it doesn't want to be left out after all
EDIT: and I can't believe I forgot a really big + in the form of this being a probable prerequisite of a softer Brexit for the rest of the UK, in that we will be out with no deal at all if we can't figure this problem out
Cons
- It's in some sense unfair

NI isn't allowed to remain in the single market:
Cons
- Huge losses for businesses that operate on the island of Ireland
- Huge inconvenience for border communities
- Unravelling of the Good Friday Agreement leading to a possible resurgence in violence
Pros
+ At least they are suffering with us

Tell Karl his brother is dead wrote:

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:But it’s absolutely not right that one part of the UK gets a special EU deal while the rest of us suffer.

I don’t want to leave at all. If we have to then every part of the UK should be treated the same. Northern Ireland should either suffer with us, or unify with the Republic.

Do you disagree with any of the following?

NI remains in the single market:
Pros
+ 2 million people in NI benefit directly from single market membership
+ Rest of the UK benefits economically from a back door into the single market
+ Slippery slope leading to possible membership for Scotland, then Wales, then London, then maybe even the rest of England deciding it doesn't want to be left out after all
Cons
- It's in some sense unfair

NI isn't allowed to remain in the single market:
Cons
- Huge losses for businesses that operate on the island of Ireland
- Huge inconvenience for border communities
- Unravelling of the Good Friday Agreement leading to a possible resurgence in violence
Pros
+ At least they are suffering with us

Your wording is rather unfair.

I disagree with part of the UK getting special treatment that the rest of us will not get. I don’t really care if that’s rational, we are either a “united” kingdom or we are not.

My view is that the entire UK should absolutely remain in the single market. We should remain in the EU too while we're at it. But the timeline where we let NI remain and the rest of the UK gets a decent trade deal is far far better for everyone than the timeline where we all get kicked out with nothing and have to deal with the IRA kicking off at the same time as our economy hits the floor.

For what it's worth I'm not trying to have a go or wind you up, I just think if you take your (100% justified and understandable) anger out of the equation you might be convinced that there is some pragmatic benefit to what was proposed today. It's obviously all academic because the DUP vetoed it (whoever thought we would ever be typing that about a UK-wide decision? ) but still.