Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
Glowy69
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PostRe: Brexit
by Glowy69 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:29 pm

Decent outcome in Lords. May is strawberry floated. parliament gets a vote on the final Brexit deal.

Taking back control, strawberry float off you brexit lunatics.

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:31 pm

:lol:

Glowy. :wub:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:35 pm

Glowy69 wrote:Decent outcome in Lords. May is strawberry floated. parliament gets a vote on the final Brexit deal.

Taking back control, strawberry float off you brexit lunatics.


:lol:

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:35 pm

I wonder what they will get to vote on though, not in terms of the terms of the deal but will it be 'a) take this deal, b) leave with no deal or a) take this deal, b) continue negotiating and attempt to extend the transition deal whilst negotiating. The best question would be should we accept the deal or stay in the EU but we all know that's not going to happen.

If the vote is going to be take the deal or leave without one then it will easily get voted through.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:40 pm

captain red dog wrote:So on the principle of democracy I support the idea of Parliament having a meaningful vote on the exit deal, but in reality what does that achieve? If Parliament rejects the deal, surely that would just lead to us crashing out with no deal at all?


Wasn’t one of the points of Brexit to “restore” Parliamentary sovereignty?

In which case a left wing Brexit supporter like yourself ought to be cheering on the restoration of Parliamentary power and the defeat of the Tory attempt at running the country without being answerable to Parliament.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:41 pm

Another ultra embarrassment for the worst government in history. Great stuff.

The Tories have been carrying on as if being a minority government means the same as a majority. Today that all came crashing down. This was the beginning of the end of this government in my opinion.

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Glowy69
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PostRe: Brexit
by Glowy69 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:45 pm

I think the overall goal is to get her out before the final deal and hopefully have someone a (little) more sensible correct? The tories are an embarrassment, utter catastrophe, if they were an animal they'd have been put down ages ago.

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit
by captain red dog » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:59 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
captain red dog wrote:So on the principle of democracy I support the idea of Parliament having a meaningful vote on the exit deal, but in reality what does that achieve? If Parliament rejects the deal, surely that would just lead to us crashing out with no deal at all?


Wasn’t one of the points of Brexit to “restore” Parliamentary sovereignty?

In which case a left wing Brexit supporter like yourself ought to be cheering on the restoration of Parliamentary power and the defeat of the Tory attempt at running the country without being answerable to Parliament.

Yes that's why I said on the principle of democracy I support it. I also supported Gina Millers effort to have article 50 ratified by parliament. If Brexit happens I want it to be through the full democratic process as that is the only acceptable way to do it.

I just wonder what actual good it will do as the clock is ticking and failure to ratify the deal would surely lead to hard Brexit (although I personally think hard Brexit is preferable to the deal they seem to have currently agreed).

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:03 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
captain red dog wrote:So on the principle of democracy I support the idea of Parliament having a meaningful vote on the exit deal, but in reality what does that achieve? If Parliament rejects the deal, surely that would just lead to us crashing out with no deal at all?


Wasn’t one of the points of Brexit to “restore” Parliamentary sovereignty?

In which case a left wing Brexit supporter like yourself ought to be cheering on the restoration of Parliamentary power and the defeat of the Tory attempt at running the country without being answerable to Parliament.

Yes that's why I said on the principle of democracy I support it. I also supported Gina Millers effort to have article 50 ratified by parliament. If Brexit happens I want it to be through the full democratic process as that is the only acceptable way to do it.

I just wonder what actual good it will do as the clock is ticking and failure to ratify the deal would surely lead to hard Brexit (although I personally think hard Brexit is preferable to the deal they seem to have currently agreed).


If the final deal is worse then no deal then there’ll be a point as Parliament can stop it.

If the final deal is better than no deal then there’ll be a point as Parliament will have ratified it rather than the Tory executive.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:04 pm

Hard brexit shouldn't be the alternative that's stupid.

If parliament can't agree that a deal is good then it should cancel brexit, it shouldn't be a choice of something gooseberry fool or death that's strawberry floating ridiculous.

It should be deal or not leave it is the only way where it has the option to avoid disaster not force them to take a gooseberry fool deal just because sit is better than nothing.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:10 pm

Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:Hard brexit shouldn't be the alternative that's stupid.

If parliament can't agree that a deal is good then it should cancel brexit, it shouldn't be a choice of something gooseberry fool or death that's strawberry floating ridiculous.

It should be deal or not leave it is the only way where it has the option to avoid disaster not force them to take a gooseberry fool deal just because sit is better than nothing.


Cancelling it would be sensible and so I guarantee it won’t happen.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:17 pm

Article 50 will be withdrawn if the deal isn't satisfactory.

Extending is possible but No Deal is dead forever at this point.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:40 pm

I can't wait to see how the Mail and Express handle this.

I imagine the word "traitors" will come up.

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NickSCFC
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PostRe: Brexit
by NickSCFC » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:00 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Christmas CrackErrkal wrote:Hard brexit shouldn't be the alternative that's stupid.

If parliament can't agree that a deal is good then it should cancel brexit, it shouldn't be a choice of something gooseberry fool or death that's strawberry floating ridiculous.

It should be deal or not leave it is the only way where it has the option to avoid disaster not force them to take a gooseberry fool deal just because sit is better than nothing.


Cancelling it would be sensible and so I guarantee it won’t happen.


Today's a big step in that direction though.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Cuttooth » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:32 pm

It's very unlikely that there's enough time left to withdraw Article 50 (whatever form withdrawal looks like) and it definitely wouldn't be so simple as to simply "cancel" it in March 2019 due to a lack of support for a deal in Parliament. Anyone hoping for that is probably setting themselves up for a massive disappointment. The majority of MPs do not want a hard Brexit and do want to stay within the single market, so today's vote coupled with the language of the agreement last week should mark the complete death of a hard or no deal Brexit. That's really probably the best anyone could sensibly hope for.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:38 pm

Mistletooth wrote:It's very unlikely that there's enough time left to withdraw Article 50 (whatever form withdrawal looks like) and it definitely wouldn't be so simple as to simply "cancel" it in March 2019 due to a lack of support for a deal in Parliament. Anyone hoping for that is probably setting themselves up for a massive disappointment. The majority of MPs do not want a hard Brexit and do want to stay within the single market, so today's vote coupled with the language of the agreement last week should mark the complete death of a hard or no deal Brexit. That's really probably the best anyone could sensibly hope for.


I agree it won’t be, but it’d be very quick and simple to withdrawal Article 50. The government would just write a letter saying it’s been withdrawn.

There are no rules and no legislation in place that stop a country withdrawing Article 50. If the EU wanted to force us out (and I’m not convinced they would) then they’d lose in court.

But, it’s not going to happen unless there is a major shift in attitude from the government, a decent sized proportion of Leavers and the media. So yeah, not going to happen.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:57 pm

Lastpostamorph wrote:I can't wait to see how the Mail and Express handle this.

I imagine the word "traitors" will come up.


Spin it as a victory probably.

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satriales
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PostRe: Brexit
by satriales » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:14 pm

Great result!
May spent the day saying that MPs will have a vote on the final Brexit deal and acting confused when anyone suggested otherwise. Yet in the background she was trying her hardest to get everyone to vote against it.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Cuttooth » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:16 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Mistletooth wrote:It's very unlikely that there's enough time left to withdraw Article 50 (whatever form withdrawal looks like) and it definitely wouldn't be so simple as to simply "cancel" it in March 2019 due to a lack of support for a deal in Parliament. Anyone hoping for that is probably setting themselves up for a massive disappointment. The majority of MPs do not want a hard Brexit and do want to stay within the single market, so today's vote coupled with the language of the agreement last week should mark the complete death of a hard or no deal Brexit. That's really probably the best anyone could sensibly hope for.


I agree it won’t be, but it’d be very quick and simple to withdrawal Article 50. The government would just write a letter saying it’s been withdrawn.

There are no rules and no legislation in place that stop a country withdrawing Article 50. If the EU wanted to force us out (and I’m not convinced they would) then they’d lose in court.

But, it’s not going to happen unless there is a major shift in attitude from the government, a decent sized proportion of Leavers and the media. So yeah, not going to happen.

This is I think the crucial point though. The Brexit process has absolutely wrecked the UK's standing in Europe, unnecessarily so! The EU would probably like to see the back of a country that has historically been quite obstructive to its aims right now, and I don't think it's going to be such a surefire victory if revoking Article 50 ended up at the European Court of Justice.

Withdrawing it also requires a political sea-change or even a series of sea-changes in a very short amount of time. It needs this government to fall and a general election to be called, which isn't inevitable despite its current state, and the next government winning on a platform of promising a new referendum or outright cancellation of the Brexit process. The Tories can't offer that and Labour won't offer that despite the apparent beginnings of a change of heart in its leadership.

This shitty compromise of a Brexit is probably the best we can hope for.

EDIT - The National is on a bit of a roll with its recent front pages. :lol:


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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:52 pm


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