Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:55 pm

Squinty wrote:I think my sister didn't have to pay at all. Might have been something to do her income or the fact that she didn't ever go to university when she was younger. I have no idea.


I was working full time so never really looked into it but out of work and low earners used to get help/free modules.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:37 pm

Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.

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bear
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PostRe: Brexit
by bear » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:56 pm

KK wrote:Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.

This sentence looks they crammed in a few extra words for the hell of it. It just doesn't flow properly or maybe I'm just tired.

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Death's Head
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PostRe: Brexit
by Death's Head » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:57 pm

For those of you working, check if your company will contribute towards studies. The company I work for does, an annual amount dependent on how long you have worked for the company. Two of the people who work for me are doing degrees with one of them getting a contribution of up to $4,000 per year.

Yes?
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Photek
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Location: Dublin

PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:18 pm

My company funds my Revit training. I was headhunted by them on LinkedIn, really odd feeling worth something.

Business is through the roof for mech, elec and building solutions over here. We're turning down work.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:30 pm

KK wrote:Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.


The walkout and no deal that everyone predicted (due to the EU complete refuses to pander to our naive demands) occuring and being blamed on the is looking to occur soon

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Death's Head
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PostRe: RE: Re: Brexit
by Death's Head » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:52 pm

Hexx wrote:
KK wrote:Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.


The walkout and no deal that everyone predicted (due to the EU complete refuses to pander to our naive demands) occuring and being blamed on the is looking to occur soon
The EU are partly to blame because they are demanding certain things be agreed (such as divorce bill) before negotiating on other items. That needs to be part of the negotiation, e.g. we will pay A if we get X, Y and Z but only amount B if you are only offering Y and Z. Forcing the UK to accept certain things before negotiating on others just weakens the UK's position and will make getting a good deal more difficult.

Yes?
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lex-man
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PostRe: RE: Re: Brexit
by lex-man » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:59 pm

Death's Head wrote:
Hexx wrote:
KK wrote:Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.


The walkout and no deal that everyone predicted (due to the EU complete refuses to pander to our naive demands) occuring and being blamed on the is looking to occur soon
The EU are partly to blame because they are demanding certain things be agreed (such as divorce bill) before negotiating on other items. That needs to be part of the negotiation, e.g. we will pay A if we get X, Y and Z but only amount B if you are only offering Y and Z. Forcing the UK to accept certain things before negotiating on others just weakens the UK's position and will make getting a good deal more difficult.


The nature of all the other deals is shaped by the divorce bill. You can't start negotiating trade without knowing if the UK is going to be in the single market or not. It would be a waste of everyone's time to start negotiating stuff and then having to throw everything out and start again when the divorce bill changes.

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Rightey
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rightey » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:43 am

andretmzt wrote:I think an issue is that there are a lot of jobs out there which people would enjoy and be perfectly able to do with training but the problem is actually getting that training. While the government could provide the funding, I really do question whether it could setup and run an effective scheme.


We have programs like this for people who are unemployed or underemployed and basically already have a degree in something and want to get into another field with better job prospects (in the case over here it's IT).

Students attend a normal college program and are just subsudized by the government. It works well, but right now it's at a fairly small scale. The big issue is that it is full time education for people who already are not very well off, so while they receive some dole money it can be difficult to be out of work for an entire year as they would probably be making a bit more.

Pelloki on ghosts wrote:Just start masturbating furiously. That'll make them go away.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: Brexit
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:35 am

bear wrote:
KK wrote:Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.

This sentence looks they crammed in a few extra words for the hell of it. It just doesn't flow properly or maybe I'm just tired.

You're right.

"Incapable of being able" :dread:

Take are redundancy back!

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Death's Head
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PostRe: RE: Re: RE: Re: Brexit
by Death's Head » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:14 am

lex-man wrote:
Death's Head wrote:
Hexx wrote:
KK wrote:Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.


The walkout and no deal that everyone predicted (due to the EU complete refuses to pander to our naive demands) occuring and being blamed on the is looking to occur soon
The EU are partly to blame because they are demanding certain things be agreed (such as divorce bill) before negotiating on other items. That needs to be part of the negotiation, e.g. we will pay A if we get X, Y and Z but only amount B if you are only offering Y and Z. Forcing the UK to accept certain things before negotiating on others just weakens the UK's position and will make getting a good deal more difficult.


The nature of all the other deals is shaped by the divorce bill. You can't start negotiating trade without knowing if the UK is going to be in the single market or not. It would be a waste of everyone's time to start negotiating stuff and then having to throw everything out and start again when the divorce bill changes.
So are the EU also agreeing what the UK will get for this divorce bill? Surely the amount agreed to must cover what the UK gets out of this. If I was in the UK's negotiating team I'd first be asking where it states the fee for members leaving (and given no one has been able to provide a figure from the outset I don't believe one exists). Then I'd be stating that the UK has been contributing for years and to now ask for more money that will benefit other members but do nothing for the UK (unless as I said this is included in a larger negotiation) isn't the way to negotiate. Maybe the UK should be asking for a refund if there is no legal documentation in place that covers exit fees...

Yes?
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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:57 am

You're fundamentally misunderstanding what the 'divorce bill' is. It's not for future acess/agreements, its commitments and obligations already entered into.

It's to do with orderly separation and dossolutoon on good terms before discussing new relationship.

Conflating the two is what the UK has tried to do from the start to everyone's bemusement.

Still obviously it works on some of electorate

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Moggy
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PostRe: RE: Re: RE: Re: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:37 am

Death's Head wrote:
lex-man wrote:
Death's Head wrote:
Hexx wrote:
KK wrote:Coming out tonight...

UK Brexit Team: "The EU is incapable of being able to carry out the Brexit negotiations" and 'the EU doesn't have a mandate from the other 27 member states'

Mood now at an all time low between the 2 sides. Going well, then.


The walkout and no deal that everyone predicted (due to the EU complete refuses to pander to our naive demands) occuring and being blamed on the is looking to occur soon
The EU are partly to blame because they are demanding certain things be agreed (such as divorce bill) before negotiating on other items. That needs to be part of the negotiation, e.g. we will pay A if we get X, Y and Z but only amount B if you are only offering Y and Z. Forcing the UK to accept certain things before negotiating on others just weakens the UK's position and will make getting a good deal more difficult.


The nature of all the other deals is shaped by the divorce bill. You can't start negotiating trade without knowing if the UK is going to be in the single market or not. It would be a waste of everyone's time to start negotiating stuff and then having to throw everything out and start again when the divorce bill changes.
So are the EU also agreeing what the UK will get for this divorce bill? Surely the amount agreed to must cover what the UK gets out of this. If I was in the UK's negotiating team I'd first be asking where it states the fee for members leaving (and given no one has been able to provide a figure from the outset I don't believe one exists). Then I'd be stating that the UK has been contributing for years and to now ask for more money that will benefit other members but do nothing for the UK (unless as I said this is included in a larger negotiation) isn't the way to negotiate. Maybe the UK should be asking for a refund if there is no legal documentation in place that covers exit fees...


The divorce bill is going to be what is owed by the UK for commitments it has already made. We have previously agreed to fund projects and the EU will want us to pay for things that we have already committed to.

It’s like if you break a mobile phone contract early. You don’t get a refund based on the money you have already paid in, you get a bill for leaving before the full term.

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Death's Head
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PostRe: Brexit
by Death's Head » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:09 am

But where is the agreement that states a country needs to pay an exit fee for leaving? Also, we get no benefit from anything we committed to so it makes no sense for us to contribute to something we don't benefit from, unless there is an exit clause.

A mobile contract would state exit fees, that is why you have no choice.

Yes?
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:13 am

We're down to less than 1.1 Euros to the Pound :dread:

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Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:21 am

Death's Head wrote:But where is the agreement that states a country needs to pay an exit fee for leaving? Also, we get no benefit from anything we committed to so it makes no sense for us to contribute to something we don't benefit from, unless there is an exit clause.

A mobile contract would state exit fees, that is why you have no choice.


Fine.

Then walk away paying nothing we committed to pissing off our biggest trading partner.

And then ask the Eu for an incredibly generous deal for our new relationship.

'No sense' :lol:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:25 am

Death's Head wrote:But where is the agreement that states a country needs to pay an exit fee for leaving? Also, we get no benefit from anything we committed to so it makes no sense for us to contribute to something we don't benefit from, unless there is an exit clause.

A mobile contract would state exit fees, that is why you have no choice.


Where is the agreement that nothing is payable? Or that anything is owed to the UK? The mobile phone example was a basic analogy not an exact replica of the situation.

Nobody ever thought any country would be crazy enough to attempt suicide by leaving. The UK now has and both sides are dealing with what that means.

Boris and the like stumble around making comments like “We shall have our cake and eat it”

David Davis and the like bumble around not making any plans or doing any research.

Theresa May and the like just chant the same mantras hoping that it works.

The EU appear to have thought about it, prepared for it and are the ones in the driving seat.

There is nothing really stopping us walking away without paying anything. But that would mean no trade deals at all with our biggest partners. And we would not look very reliable to the rest of the world when we turn up wanting deals.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:31 am

The EU have published their methodology on this: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... per_en.pdf

I can't be arsed to read it all but it might answer your questions.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:51 am

Death's Head wrote:But where is the agreement that states a country needs to pay an exit fee for leaving? Also, we get no benefit from anything we committed to so it makes no sense for us to contribute to something we don't benefit from, unless there is an exit clause.

A mobile contract would state exit fees, that is why you have no choice.


It would be tied up in the individual pieces of legislation that the UK agreed to over the years. Just before the last Brexit vote Cameron signed up to pay for the next funding round which lasts until 2019.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:21 pm

Jesus Christ this press conference is a horrific mess

Ashamed to be British/represented by Davis

Barnier says he UK wants to take back control.
But it also wants to have UK standards automatically recognised by the EU.
This is simply impossible.


Jesus Christ.

Davis stood there whinging the EU isn't being flexible on stuff everyone, including the EU, said weren't on the table for years.

We're so strawberry floated


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