Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
206
79%
Leave the European Union
54
21%
 
Total votes: 260
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:12 pm



:lol:

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:19 pm

Moggy wrote:

:lol:


Where's my unicorn dammit.

I love watching the video's of his show as it also looks like he's actually talking to someone sat in the corner of the room, who just isn't given any time to answer back to him :lol:

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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:29 pm



:lol:

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Benzin
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PostRe: Brexit
by Benzin » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:59 pm

We are truly letting the idiots run the asylum :fp:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:39 am


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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:35 am

An American view on the Brexit lies that are about to be revealed.

It is a rare opportunity. Seldom does the voting public have the chance to watch their elected politicians confront very specific false promises in real time. Usually campaign promises are either too vague to be contrasted with reality (“Make America Great Again”) or too long term. By the time that “guaranteed growth” either arrives or doesn’t, the person who said it would happen is long out of office.

But in Britain right now, something different is unfolding. During the referendum last year, politicians advocating their country’s departure from the European Union gave some specific assurances. Some derived from ignorance; as it turned out, few of them really understood how the E.U. works. Others were lies, which they knew to be lies at the time.

Because they didn’t expect to win that campaign, they didn’t expect either their ignorance or their dishonesty to be revealed. But then they won — and now it’s happening.

The most egregious lie was about money. During the campaign, leading Brexiteers drove around the country in large red buses, emblazoned with a slogan: “We send the EU 350 million pounds a week, let’s fund our NHS [National Health Service] instead.” This was a very influential argument, as the Brexit campaign managers have admitted. It was also an invented number — Britain does not send the E.U. 350 million pounds a week, as fact-checkers showed over and over. Some of those on the winning side admitted as much after the campaign.

But now, instead of receiving “350 million pounds a week,” negotiators are trapped in an argument about how much money Britain owes Europe — for budgetary promises not kept, for agreements signed and not honored. More ominously, the British government is just now realizing that leaving the European single market, which is far more than an ordinary free-trade zone, will cost it in other ways, too. Jointly designed European agencies and arrangements may now have to be re-created, at vast expense, from scratch: pharmaceutical and nuclear regulators, for example. It is possible that a vast new customs service, complete with parking lots at the border, computer systems and customs agents, will be needed to cope with new tariff regimes once Britain is outside the European customs union. In the long term, Britain will have more bureaucracy, and less money to spend on the NHS.

The second falsehood, frequently repeated during the campaign, was that leaving the single market would be fast, simple and easy. Liam Fox, now Britain’s top trade negotiator, said a new trade deal with Europe would be “the easiest in human history.” David Davis, now the minister in charge of the whole process, declared that “we can do deals . . . and we can do them quickly.” With breathtaking insouciance and eye-watering obliviousness, others implied that all sorts of trading arrangements with countries all over the world could be ready in a matter of months.

In practice, more than a year has passed since the referendum and nearly six months have passed since Britain invoked Article 50, the “exiting the E.U.” procedure. During that time, almost no progress has been made. The British government itself is divided about its own position, which makes it difficult to talk to Brussels. This Last week, Davis told the House of Commons — to howls of derisory laughter — that “nobody pretended [Brexit] would be easy.” It’s as if he has actually forgotten that he himself repeatedly pretended exactly that.

What happens next is unclear. We know that the Brexiteers’ promises were hollow. Their assessments were wrong. Whatever remaining credibility this government still has should have vanished. Still, elections are complicated things, party loyalties are strong and there are other issues in play. During the referendum campaign, voters weren’t bothered by facts. During the recent snap elections, they seemed uneasier about the ruling party and refused to give it an absolute majority. Will the Brexiteers now be further punished at the ballot box? We’ll see.

The answer matters, because a parallel moment is about to arrive in the United States. As a candidate, Donald Trump also made some very specific electoral promises, including, for example, the construction of a wall along the Mexican border, to be paid for with Mexican money. It didn’t matter how many Mexican politicians denied that this would happen; Trump kept repeating the promise. Now the budget battles are looming and, unsurprisingly, Mexico seems no more likely to pay for a border wall than Brexit is to free up 350 million pounds a week for Britain. Will Trump’s voters punish him for failing to do what he said he would do? We’ll see about that too.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... b5d5b6a1c4

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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:03 pm

A lot of EU flags at the Proms events tonight. They've been handed out I believe, which angered the Mail today. They want them CONFISCATED.

They're not being forced to hold them up...

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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:32 pm

KK wrote:A lot of EU flags at the Proms events tonight. They've been handed out I believe, which angered the Mail today. They want them CONFISCATED.

They're not being forced to hold them up...


What do they expect when they make such a fuss about it?

Thats what so hilarious about what Mail readers get all uppity about - NONE OF IT strawberry floating MATTERS.

Gender neutrality, nationalism, immigration, baeuracracy - its all so unimportant in the grand scheme of things! Lets concentrate on important stuff, the economy, equality and our happiness as a country.

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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:30 am

BBC News wrote:Tony Blair wants tougher immigration rules for EU citizens

Phoney Blair has called on the government to introduce a new UK immigration policy which "reasserts control".

When he was prime minister, his government - unlike most EU countries - did not apply transitional controls on migrants from eastern Europe.

But in a Sunday Times article, he said "times were different" now, and all EU nationals should register on arrival and should already have a job offer.

However, Mr Blair still opposes leaving the EU, saying it will be "painful".

He says tougher immigration policies could "deal with the anxieties" that he says led to the Brexit vote - without the UK necessarily having to go through with it.

'Restrict healthcare'

Under existing rules, citizens of other EU countries can be removed after six months if they have not found a job, have no realistic possibility of finding one, and require support from the welfare system.

But the new report by Mr Blair's Institute for Global Change says EU nationals should already have an offer of work when they arrive.

Those who didn't earn permission to stay would be banned from opening a bank account, renting a home or claiming benefits.

The report also proposes restricting free healthcare for unemployed migrants and letting universities charge EU nationals higher tuition fees than British students.

He argues his approach "reaches out to Leave voters to show their concerns are better met", without "the damage" he claims Brexit will do.

And he acknowledges that his thinking has changed.

"My government in 2004 did not invoke the transitional arrangements when eastern Europe joined the EU," he writes.

"Back then the economy was strong, the workers were needed and actually the biggest annual numbers came post-2011.

"But the real point is that the times were different; the sentiment was different; and intelligent politics takes account of such change."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41216679

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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:36 am

Dude kinda has a point. Doesn't Belgium do that at the moment? Like you have to have work or means to survive even from the EU it isn't just a in you come go nuts thing?

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:48 am

Errkal wrote:Dude kinda has a point. Doesn't Belgium do that at the moment? Like you have to have work or means to survive even from the EU it isn't just a in you come go nuts thing?


I'm not sure exactly but a lot of EU implement a number of immigration rules and controls that we've never bothered with and had we done it the hysteria over immigration may never have reached the level it did prior to the referendum and who knows maybe the referendum would never have taken place. For years our governments used to sit there and just say our hands are tied, we can't do anything about it whilst other EU nations took various measures. No body seemed to challenge this and just seemed to accept it.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:53 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Errkal wrote:Dude kinda has a point. Doesn't Belgium do that at the moment? Like you have to have work or means to survive even from the EU it isn't just a in you come go nuts thing?


I'm not sure exactly but a lot of EU implement a number of immigration rules and controls that we've never bothered with and had we done it the hysteria over immigration may never have reached the level it did prior to the referendum and who knows maybe the referendum would never have taken place. For years our governments used to sit there and just say our hands are tied, we can't do anything about it whilst other EU nations took various measures. No body seemed to challenge this and just seemed to accept it.


Yeah there is loads that could have been done but they just blamed the EU and did nothing.

It's like the steep industry stuff, people argued the EU was bad for doing nothing and that was a reason to leave but the reality was Cameron said no to EU help.

The EU aren't stupid and there are provisions in there to sort stuff, but how much it would appease the shouty idiots I don't know as I don't think would be happy until immigration is 0 and even then it will be someone else's fault for the gooseberry fool show the country will be at that point.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:09 am

The whole "open borders" thing was just a UKIP lie. We were never in Schengen, we are an island and there was never anything to stop us limiting migration.

It was all a nice way for Blair/Brown/Cameron/May to blame the EU for high immigration, rather than them having to explain to the xenophobes why we actually need immigrants and why they are a good thing.

Decades of political cowardice led us to this. :fp:

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:13 am

It's what happens when all elections are pr excersices, no one wants to deal with the hard sell stuff and just takes the easy option of blame that thing over therem

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:32 am

Honestly, the government is just deflecting all negativity away by blaming someone or something. I agree with Moggy, this has been the making for years because of that. The sooner the general population realises this, the better.

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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:38 pm

Nigel, about the Proms last night:

Nigel Farage to The Guardian wrote:These people are still in denial over the referendum result. They are trying to make it all about them instead of a great concert. The British people want to leave the EU no matter how many flags they fly.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:42 pm

Favourite Farage moment recently



EU states working together, if only there was a kind of union for that.

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PostRe: Brexit
by bear » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:26 pm



It's good news for London but drawing attention to Frankfurt being eleventh is a pointless dig seeing as it's actually risen by 12 places. It's entirely reliant on people only looking at the first column.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:35 pm

And we're still a year and a half away from Brexit happening.

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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:54 pm

I mean people will interpret those figures how they see fit, but the fact New York has fallen 24, Boston 30 and San Francisco 31 (both down a whopping 10 places in the rankings) is the story there, as is Asia in general. That is a sign of a declining superpower.

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