Brexit

Croissants are only good when still warm.

Lagamorph wrote:Croissants are only good when still warm.

Yeah, don't enjoy a cold one, need to either be freshly warm or warmed up.

Butter or chocolate. Jam is the devil.

Warm croissants with nutella and sliced banana.

Pain Au Chocolat's are better.

Karl wrote:

Blue Eyes wrote:

Karl wrote:

Denster wrote:What will you all do if it's a roaring success?

If it were truly "roaring" then I guess we'd have nothing to complain about. But for me the EU, as well as an economic and political bloc, is a sociocultural identity. I prefer European ideals to British ones. So as well as its economic fortunes, the UK's culture would have to change for the better before I'm ready to hail Brexit as a success. The rise in hate crime and xenophobia - not to mention looming plans to tear up human rights - makes this seem unlikely presently, just as the early economic indicators make a boom seem improbable.

Which ideals are these, out of interest? I'm guessing they're less insular maybe?

There's a huge amount of variance between European nations, and of course there are tools in every country. (Eastern Europe in particular still has a little bit of cultural catching up to do, particularly on issues like gay marriage.) But what I see generally in Europe - expressed via the EU legislature but also 'on average' if you squint at the nations' governments - is a much greater commitment to progressive ideals than here. That means things like freedom of movement and a commitment to fundamental rights and individual liberties, but it also means things like science funding and affordable education.

Well you say that, but then I would counter with things like the Burka ban, which whilst it is a topic over here, doesn't feel close to even being considered in terms of legislation but is actually the norm in some major EU states.

captain red dog wrote:Well you say that, but then I would counter with things like the Burka ban, which whilst it is a topic over here, doesn't feel close to even being considered in terms of legislation but is actually the norm in some major EU states.

This is kind of a weird response. I never said Europe was some kind of utopia that gets it right every time on every issue in every nation.

Blue Eyes wrote:Butter or chocolate. Jam is the devil.

Finally, something in this topic worth arguing about.

You are utterly wrong, strawberry jam in a warm croissant is basically what strawberry jam was invented for.

Death's Head wrote:

Blue Eyes wrote:Butter or chocolate. Jam is the devil.

Finally, something in this topic worth arguing about.

You are utterly wrong, strawberry jam in a warm croissant is basically what strawberry jam was invented for.

Jam is for high tea when you can't handle clotted cream alone. Too sweet.

Blue Eyes wrote:Jam is for high tea when you can't handle clotted cream alone. Too sweet.

Sounds to me like someone has never had a warm croissant with butter and strawberry jam.
I've also used syrup when there is no strawberry jam.

I hate Crossants. I would rather have a nice scwun with clotted cream.

Karl wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Well you say that, but then I would counter with things like the Burka ban, which whilst it is a topic over here, doesn't feel close to even being considered in terms of legislation but is actually the norm in some major EU states.

This is kind of a weird response. I never said Europe was some kind of utopia that gets it right every time on every issue in every nation.

I never said you did. I just disagree that Europe is somehow more progressive than the UK given many nations don't enjoy the same freedoms we do.

captain red dog wrote:

Karl wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Well you say that, but then I would counter with things like the Burka ban, which whilst it is a topic over here, doesn't feel close to even being considered in terms of legislation but is actually the norm in some major EU states.

This is kind of a weird response. I never said Europe was some kind of utopia that gets it right every time on every issue in every nation.

I never said you did. I just disagree that Europe is somehow more progressive than the UK given many nations don't enjoy the same freedoms we do.

Look at the majority of people that want to leave and what they start for, conservatives, UKIP etc. Then look at those that want to stay, which is the more tolerant and more inclusive in their views on rights, LGBT, etc.

Being in the EU is having us progress out the more backwards people will have more impact and can hold us back.

The EU and supporters are more progressive.

It's hard to judge the success of Brexit because I don't even know what it's supposed to achieve. The main reasons I keep hearing over and over again is 1) trading with the rest of the world, which we can already do thanks to our EU membership and the numerous free trade agreements what the EU has with other countries, the terms of which will always be much better than any we negotiate without that clout 2) sovereignty, which we already had, besides which no country that wants to function in the world has absolute sovereignty apart from maybe North Korea. 3) less immigration, which will harm our economic and lose us jobs, and is already being rowed back on now that it's clear many sectors cannot cope without it.

So, yeah, no idea what Brexit is supposed to gain us, which is remarkable given how long its supporters have had to communicate these arguments. If I don't even know that how am I supposed to quantify a success?

It simply can't be a success. Its like saying the grass isn't green. It is. Its simple logic.

Its why people can't get over it, its nonsensical. Gloabalism is inevitable, you might as well be denying global warming in my book.

captain red dog wrote:I never said you did. I just disagree that Europe is somehow more progressive than the UK given many nations don't enjoy the same freedoms we do.

This is, err, certainly an interesting point of view. I have to say I don't see any evidence that freedoms are on the UK agenda at the moment. "The EU isn't perfect" - as was the eternal refrain of Britain Stronger in Europe - but at least they are protecting human rights, curbing mass surveillance, promoting freer borders, member states are generally providing affordable education... the EU is clearly a progressivising influence, even if individual nations take steps backwards on occasion. One of the arguments for leaving is that it would give us the 'sovereignty' we needed to be more regressive. Leaving puts on a different cultural trajectory to Europe and I think will probably place us on the wrong side of history.

As Errkal said, take a look at the kind of person that really hates the EU if you are in any doubt that the organisation annoys regressive conservatives.

captain red dog wrote:

Karl wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Well you say that, but then I would counter with things like the Burka ban, which whilst it is a topic over here, doesn't feel close to even being considered in terms of legislation but is actually the norm in some major EU states.

This is kind of a weird response. I never said Europe was some kind of utopia that gets it right every time on every issue in every nation.

I never said you did. I just disagree that Europe is somehow more progressive than the UK given many nations don't enjoy the same freedoms we do.

I'm not sure what the French banning the burqa has to do with Brexit. If anything it's an argument to show that individual nations still have sovereignty over their own laws.

The burqa is a weird topic. It's a pretty disgusting item of clothing, but at the same time it's disgusting to try and ban it.

I'd imagine that the bulk of UK citizens that want a burqa ban are those that voted leave....

Most of the people I know who voted, remain or leave, did not seem to know anything about the key issues. In my mind that's pretty clear evidence that it was a mistake to call the referendum at all. Most of the people I know who voted remain did not do so because it was the rational thing to do; they were convinced by identity politics that painted that side was more liberal and tolerant. Same thing goes for the leave voters in terms of knee jerk reactions against a government the don't like (I know a few leave voters who voted the way they did, on a once in a generation vote, based on the fact that they hated Cameron) or a dislike of foreign cultures and different religions. A girl I am friends with voted leave because she hoped it would lead to a crash in house prices and allow her to get on the property ladder. It's hard to find anyone who actually had a clear command over the facts.

https://amp.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/ ... ol-but-ca/

Absolute gold. I am going out on a limb and saying most leave voters are like this. Although all this does is makes me angry again that all voters where led by lies and bullshit

I love james o' brian

Glowy69 wrote:https://amp.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/brexit-supporter-voted-to-take-back-control-but-ca/

Absolute gold. I am going out on a limb and saying most leave voters are like this. Although all this does is makes me angry again that all voters where led by lies and bullshit

I love james o' brian

This caller is a dipshit of the very highest calibre, just like most... ah strawberry float it, all Brexit voters. It's a stupid, irrational, pointless, self-harming exercise and no Brexit voter can argue for leaving without spouting nonsensical drivel. The country is strawberry floated regardless of whether we go through with it now and it's all that vile banana split Cameron's fault.