Brexit

Lagamorph wrote:Tory MPs prepare for snap autumn election as Theresa May hit by Brexit deadlock

Conservative MPs are preparing for another snap general election as they fear the Brexit deadlock will become insurmountable for the prime minister.

Some have spoken to their local party associations asking to be readopted as prospective parliamentary candidates in readiness for an autumn election.

The back-bench MPs acted after meeting Theresa May last week for a private Brexit briefing as she tried to stop a row over Britain’s future customs relationship with the European Union tearing the party apart.

Labour MPs are also discussing the prospect of an October poll. A Labour Party insider said: “I heard two separate reports from MPs who said they had heard Conservative MPs planning for an early election.”

Bring it on! Hopefully it would lead to the DUP losing their position of power.

For an election to solve anything you would need an opposition with a coherent plan for Brexit. Unfortunately, Labour does not. Being inside the CU and outside the SE is a terrible place to be, yet this is apparently what the Labour leadership want as they are trying to stop their MPs rebelling in favouring of retaining the single market. Even Brexiteers would agree being in the CU only, which is basically mean reciprocal market access to anyone the EU signs a deal with, is less favourable than being in the EU.

I think Labour need to be less afraid of the leave voters in their heartlands. Elections are multi-issue questions and Brexit not the be all and end all of social issues for most voters. Recent results have backed up the idea that they can take a softer line on the EU than the tories and still remain electable in their core areas. If anything leaning more towards preserving single market access will help them break into Conservative heartlands in affluent areas around London which are increasingly populated by professionals and younger people who recognise the importance of such access.

Meep wrote:For an election to solve anything you would need an opposition with a coherent plan for Brexit. Unfortunately, Labour does not. Being inside the CU and outside the SE is a terrible place to be, yet this is apparently what the Labour leadership want as they are trying to stop their MPs rebelling in favouring of retaining the single market. Even Brexiteers would agree being in the CU only, which is basically mean reciprocal market access to anyone the EU signs a deal with, is less favourable than being in the EU.

I think Labour need to be less afraid of the leave voters in their heartlands. Elections are multi-issue questions and Brexit not the be all and end all of social issues for most voters. Recent results have backed up the idea that they can take a softer line on the EU than the tories and still remain electable in their core areas. If anything leaning more towards preserving single market access will help them break into Conservative heartlands in affluent areas around London which are increasingly populated by professionals and younger people who recognise the importance of such access.

It’s not that Labour are scared of Leave voters, more that Corbyn WANTS to leave.

Moggy wrote:

Meep wrote:For an election to solve anything you would need an opposition with a coherent plan for Brexit. Unfortunately, Labour does not. Being inside the CU and outside the SE is a terrible place to be, yet this is apparently what the Labour leadership want as they are trying to stop their MPs rebelling in favouring of retaining the single market. Even Brexiteers would agree being in the CU only, which is basically mean reciprocal market access to anyone the EU signs a deal with, is less favourable than being in the EU.

I think Labour need to be less afraid of the leave voters in their heartlands. Elections are multi-issue questions and Brexit not the be all and end all of social issues for most voters. Recent results have backed up the idea that they can take a softer line on the EU than the tories and still remain electable in their core areas. If anything leaning more towards preserving single market access will help them break into Conservative heartlands in affluent areas around London which are increasingly populated by professionals and younger people who recognise the importance of such access.

It’s not that Labour are scared of Leave voters, more that Corbyn WANTS to leave.

And what Corbyn wants, momentum will bully people into supporting until he gets.

I've a handful of friends who are fervent Corbyn supporters, but at the same time are also fervent remainers.

Does. Not. Compute.

Gemini73 wrote:I've a handful of friends who are fervent Corbyn supporters, but at the same time are also fervent remainers.

Does. Not. Compute.

Some Corbyn fans are like a cult. Their blind faith convinces them that Corbyn is playing some amazing game that will result in Britain becoming a socialist paradise inside the EU.

They refuse to accept that he wants out of the EU far more than Theresa May does.

If I could vote for Labour I would, even though I voted to remain in the EU. I'm resigned to Brexit happening even though I dislike it, and I think it would be election suicide to go against the referendum vote, so on that front it's more about avoiding a hard Brexit for me now. Importantly, there are a lot of non-Brexit policies I side with Labour on over the Conservatives (some of which have greatly affected my life) so I wouldn't like to see the Conservatives get more years in power. I've never found a politician or a party I agree with 100%, and I don't expect to. I believe democracies and elections are all about compromise - can't get everything I want, but I'll vote for whoever comes closest and try to help avoid something I believe to be worse.

Garth wrote:If I could vote for Labour I would, even though I voted to remain in the EU. I'm resigned to Brexit happening even though I dislike it, and I think it would be election suicide to go against the referendum vote, so on that front it's more about avoiding a hard Brexit for me now. Importantly, there are a lot of non-Brexit policies I side with Labour on over the Conservatives (some of which have greatly affected my life) so I wouldn't like to see the Conservatives get more years in power. I've never found a politician or a party I agree with 100%, and I don't expect to. I believe democracies and elections are all about compromise - can't get everything I want, but I'll vote for whoever comes closest and try to help avoid something I believe to be worse.

If you want to avoid a hard Brexit why would you vote Labour? Hard Brexit is exactly what Corbyn wants.

Lagamorph wrote:If you want to avoid a hard Brexit why would you vote Labour? Hard Brexit is exactly what Corbyn wants.

I don't think that's the case. They're backing a customs union, which isn't hard Brexit, and the Conservatives won't even commit to that yet. I also believe there's more support for hard Brexit in the Conservative party than in the Labour party.

Garth wrote:

Lagamorph wrote:If you want to avoid a hard Brexit why would you vote Labour? Hard Brexit is exactly what Corbyn wants.

I don't think that's the case. They're backing a customs union, which isn't hard Brexit, and the Conservatives won't even commit to that yet. I also believe there's more support for hard Brexit in the Conservative party than in the Labour party.

Labour might not want hard Brexit, but Corbyn does.

It matters that he's publicly calling for a customs union though, even if you think privately he'd prefer to be against it. Maintaining a customs union with the EU is his party's position which he's agreed to and is stating as party leader. If he becomes PM before Brexit, does a public u-turn and says, "strawberry float customs unions! Hard Brexit all the way", he's still one man in a Parliamentary democracy and would be going against the new government mandate - I don't believe he'd have enough support for hard Brexit among Labour MPs to pull that off.

Corbyn is publicly calling for a customs union in the same way he called for the UK to remain in the EU during the referendum.
Half heartedly because he's been forced and is making it painfully obvious he doesn't actually believe what he's saying.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but he's not talking about THE customs union, but "a" custom union with some magic terms and conditions the EU will deftinately give us.

It's just a different breed of Unicorn

Thing is, Corbyn is still a hugely preferable option to what is...and let's not forget...the worst post-war government. To suggest any opposition is less capable of less good in the interests of the public is complete spin and complete bollocks.

I find Corbyn frustrating, but with the lack of choice on offer it's a no brainer. I'd take Milliband over him any day. I don't think the last election saw the public reject centre left politics, I think it saw them clamouring (or gammouring) for a referendum.

Tineash wrote:We are definitely only about 3 months away from people talking themselves into voting Conservative because they're mad at Jeremy Corbyn over Brexit.

These people are Torys but for some reason are embarrassed to admit it. They will blame Labour and Corbyn for everything, forcing them to vote Tory when that's what they really want to do

Hexx wrote:Forgive me if I'm wrong but he's not talking about THE customs union, but "a" custom union with some magic terms and conditions the EU will deftinately give us.

It's just a different breed of Unicorn

Yep this entirely. He said something along the lines of not the customs union but a customs arrangement of some sort.

DML wrote:Thing is, Corbyn is still a hugely preferable option to what is...and let's not forget...the worst post-war government.

Thing is I found myself agreeing with Alastair Campbell when he said "People are not seeing the Labour party as a viable party of government up against what is probably the worst government in our lifetime". And he's absolutely right. Labour, with Corbyn at the helm, are strawberry floating useless. The Tories are practically handing it to them on a plate and yet Labour are stumbling around with their collective thumbs up their backside.

If there's another general election in October I don't think I'd have any option but to spoil my ballot (or vote Green). I voted for Corbyn last time but cannot with any good conscience vote for him again given the way he handled the anti Semitism row and his comments on Europe.

What a terribly depressing state of affairs.

I think Corbyn's support was generally a response to continued austerity. People are getting sick of services being cut to the bone. His message was simply much more positive and engaging than the Conservatives.

I can't see them winning if another one is called though. Because I always assume the worst whenever people are concerned. Brexit, Trump, both things I thought would happen. I think Labour are the best between the two, even though both are crap in different ways.

Hyperion wrote:

Tineash wrote:We are definitely only about 3 months away from people talking themselves into voting Conservative because they're mad at Jeremy Corbyn over Brexit.

These people are Torys but for some reason are embarrassed to admit it. They will blame Labour and Corbyn for everything, forcing them to vote Tory when that's what they really want to do

If they vote Tory then they probably are Tories.

But you are missing the point that a lot of non-Tories just don’t like Corbyn or dislike Corbyn’s policies.

It’s easy to just write people off as closet Tories but it’s simply not true that they all are. Corbynites seem to be unable to understand that for a lot of centrist and left leaning people, Corbyn just isn’t somebody that inspires them.