Brexit

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
201
79%
Leave the European Union
55
21%
 
Total votes: 256
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:57 pm

Denster wrote:Same old argument dug up again and again. At least you admit it’s crass but let’s agree that you’re right. It isn’t beneath you. Not anymore.
Let’s see how much worse you can get before we actually leave the EU. All in the name of debate of course.


Same old completely avoiding the difficult questions in favour of faux outrage at a crass comment. A crass comment that could easily have come from your own mouth.

You don’t want to debate Denny, so why pretend you do?

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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit
by Tineash » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:59 pm

This is pretty pathetic stuff Denster.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:00 pm

Bless?

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:05 pm

I’ve made my position clear and shouldnht have to defend it as often as I have.
you and your ilk in here won’t accept the Brexit result and give me grief because I have. Constantly.
Hey ho. I’m a big boy. I can take it. It’s not like it’s going to change any time soon.

Moggy wrote:For £350m I'd join the Tory Party. :lol:
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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:06 pm

Tineash wrote:This is pretty pathetic stuff Denster.

Because I agree with May or didn’t like Moggy’s comment?

Moggy wrote:For £350m I'd join the Tory Party. :lol:
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:07 pm

Denster wrote:I’ve made my position clear and shouldnht have to defend it as often as I have.
you and your ilk in here won’t accept the Brexit result and give me grief because I have. Constantly.
Hey ho. I’m a big boy. I can take it. It’s not like it’s going to change any time soon.


Accusing me (again!!) of not accepting the result, when all I ever say is that it is going to happen?

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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:08 pm

Moggy wrote:You’d applaud her if she literally shat in your mouth... People stopped posting because they have zero logical arguments...

Moggy, it appears that you may need to take a break.

It seems odd that Tineash and DML appear to support that kind of posting.

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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit
by Tineash » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:10 pm

Denster wrote:
Tineash wrote:This is pretty pathetic stuff Denster.

Because I agree with May or didn’t like Moggy’s comment?


Ridiculous faux pearl-clutching because someone said 'shat' - we all know you're filthy, Denster.
And ridiculous outrage at the PM being asked a question about the most important event in politics. It's salience is obvious & overwhelming. It is right and proper that an interviewer highlight this one contradiction in the whole strawberry floating mess of unresolvable contradictions that is Brexit.

Last edited by Tineash on Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:11 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:You’d applaud her if she literally shat in your mouth... People stopped posting because they have zero logical arguments...

Moggy, it appears that you may need to take a break.

It seems odd that Tineash and DML appear to support that kind of posting.


I think you are wrong Jawa.

Denster is the king of crass and insulting comments. It’s one of the things that I (genuinely!) love about him. If he can’t take the same language when it’s posted back at him, then he better change his entire posting style because this will be thrown back at him in the future as an example of hypocrisy.

The zero logical arguments comments is basically true. What are the logical arguments?

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:16 pm

Tineash wrote:
Denster wrote:
Tineash wrote:This is pretty pathetic stuff Denster.

Because I agree with May or didn’t like Moggy’s comment?


Ridiculous faux pearl-clutching because someone said 'shat' - we all know you're filthy, Denster.
And ridiculous outrage at the PM being asked a question about the most important event in politics. It's salience is obvious & overwhelming.

So both then.

I answered the May question. Moggy’s point was crass and also not factual - I’ve criticised May plenty and certainly a lot in recent weeks.
I find it offensive that I’m perceived to be so blinkered that I’ll accept anything and I pointed out that that wasn’t suitable for a discussion thread.
As Moggy pointed out - this isn’t a discussion thread so I was wrong to take issue with his choice of words.
That’s why I let your use of pathetic slide as well. You’re welcome.

Moggy wrote:For £350m I'd join the Tory Party. :lol:
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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:32 pm

Moggy wrote:I think you are wrong Jawa...

Moggy, I feel that as soon as you start using derogatory language* and seemingly suggesting - perhaps not intentionally, but it could easily be perceived that way - that other folk are dolts, then you’ve lost ground.

Very few people are going to change their mind about Brexit; at least not in the short term. Folk can present arguments and discussion points here but, realistically, it is unlikely to change opinion... for either side of the fence.

The thread feels like an outlet for frustration. There is nothing wrong with that but it does make me wonder if different rules of engagement apply in this thread compared to others on the forum. Personally I feel that a lot of antagonism could be avoided by just pausing for ten minutes before replying. But, then again, I’m a boring old bastard.

* I recognise that “bad” language is subject to opinion and that we all use a lot of this type of language across the forum... but your “gooseberry fool in your mouth” quote didn’t appear to be taking much of a humorous angle.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:35 pm

I'm not on either side, I'm just incredibly confused Denster the crassest person ever is now offended. It's just really odd.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:40 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:I think you are wrong Jawa...

Moggy, I feel that as soon as you start using derogatory language* and seemingly suggesting - perhaps not intentionally, but it could easily be perceived that way - that other folk are dolts, then you’ve lost ground.

Very few people are going to change their mind about Brexit; at least not in the short term. Folk can present arguments and discussion points here but, realistically, it is unlikely to change opinion... for either side of the fence.

The thread feels like an outlet for frustration. There is nothing wrong with that but it does make me wonder if different rules of engagement apply in this thread compared to others on the forum. Personally I feel that a lot of antagonism could be avoided by just pausing for ten minutes before replying. But, then again, I’m a boring old bastard.

* I recognise that “bad” language is subject to opinion and that we all use a lot of this type of language across the forum... but your “gooseberry fool in your mouth” quote didn’t appear to be taking much of a humorous angle.


Is “bastard” not bad language?

Denster swears as much as anybody else, in fact more than most. I refuse to believe he is seriously offended by the word “shat”.

Was it humorous? Well I’d imagine so, I don’t actually believe that Theresa May would gooseberry fool in Denny’s mouth or that he’d applaud her for it.

Denster (and I do genuinely mean this) is loved on this forum and a big part of that is his amazing use of crass, insulting and offensive language. He cannot complain when crass language is then used against him.

I wouldn’t have made that comment to you, you are not a poster that really uses such language. I don’t mean to insult you but it’s the difference in the language you use in the pub with your mates and the language you use with your grandparents.

I didn’t call anyone dolts either. I said they had no logical arguments. And I’m still waiting to hear one....

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:42 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:I think you are wrong Jawa...

Moggy, I feel that as soon as you start using derogatory language* and seemingly suggesting - perhaps not intentionally, but it could easily be perceived that way - that other folk are dolts, then you’ve lost ground.

Very few people are going to change their mind about Brexit; at least not in the short term. Folk can present arguments and discussion points here but, realistically, it is unlikely to change opinion... for either side of the fence.

The thread feels like an outlet for frustration. There is nothing wrong with that but it does make me wonder if different rules of engagement apply in this thread compared to others on the forum. Personally I feel that a lot of antagonism could be avoided by just pausing for ten minutes before replying. But, then again, I’m a boring old bastard.

* I recognise that “bad” language is subject to opinion and that we all use a lot of this type of language across the forum... but your “gooseberry fool in your mouth” quote didn’t appear to be taking much of a humorous angle.


The only reason this thread feels like a place for frustration is because there are mainly remainers on here....but also the government is so goddamned awful as well. As those Channel 4 debates show, it is far from a remainer view that the government are woeful, and May is awful and ineffective. I don't understand why the likes of yourself come in to suggest this is an attack on Leavers. It is not, it is an attack on a woefully ineffective government. I don't personally see logical reasons to leave, but my main ire right now is with the idiots running this country.

I also have said I don't think May is an evil person, but I find her choices odd and her leadership dreadful. That said, I'd rather her than someone like Boris who isn't living on Planet Earth.

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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:02 pm

Moggy wrote:...I said they had no logical arguments. And I’m still waiting to hear one....

Dude, I wonder if this is the thing that would deter people from wanting to enter a discussion here. Your wording appears to indicate that you are closed to different opinions and, frustratingly, on the basis that - logically - any argument wouldn’t pass muster. Why would folk raise a point in that situation?

But, hey, I’m a glutton for punishment so here are two arguments, albeit ones that I expect have been talked over a thousand times already and that we probably won’t agree on:

1) I prefer the idea of the UK being in a position to devise and administer laws independent of outside influence.

2) I like the notion of the UK being able to approach countries worldwide and agree trading processes independent of outside influence.

Now, I know that you will provide examples and links as to how the UK could already devise and implement aspects of laws... but it won’t be to the same degree of an independent nation. Equally, I recognise that being a part of the EU enables ease of trade with the other countries in that zone; but I think the UK has the capability to negotiate independently and worldwide.

I am not for one moment suggesting there won’t be bumps in the road with these two points, nor that other aspects of leaving the EU wouldn’t make the overall picture more challenging. But, for me, those two points are reasonable approaches that are attractive.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:25 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...I said they had no logical arguments. And I’m still waiting to hear one....

Dude, I wonder if this is the thing that would deter people from wanting to enter a discussion here. Your wording appears to indicate that you are closed to different opinions and, frustratingly, on the basis that - logically - any argument wouldn’t pass muster. Why would folk raise a point in that situation?


The wording literally says I am waiting for a logical argument. That’s not being closed to different opinions, that’s asking to hear one.

Leavers are really really paranoid about all this and so defensive about their beliefs. I’m not stopping anybody posting (no matter how many times you claim it), but I will not sit back and not post either.

But, hey, I’m a glutton for punishment so here are two arguments, albeit ones that I expect have been talked over a thousand times already and that we probably won’t agree on:


For somebody that’s brought up the tone of postings, is that sentence above really a great opening to a discussion? Glutton for punishment, we won’t agree, talked over a thousand times?

1) I prefer the idea of the UK being in a position to devise and administer laws independent of outside influence.


As you guessed later on, I don’t agree with this as we can already make our own laws. We also have an equal say in any European laws. Arguing like this is like saying Bristol should be independent. Maybe there’s a good case to be made for that, but it needs more evidence than just “I prefer this little bit of land to make different laws”.

2) I like the notion of the UK being able to approach countries worldwide and agree trading processes independent of outside influence.


The trouble is that such a huge amount of our trade comes from EU member states. We will be cutting ourselves off from the biggest trading bloc on the entire planet.

And for what? America will never give us a free trade deal. Canada already has one with the EU. China? Russia? Tuvalu?

Now, I know that you will provide examples and links as to how the UK could already devise and implement aspects of laws... but it won’t be to the same degree of an independent nation. Equally, I recognise that being a part of the EU enables ease of trade with the other countries in that zone; but I think the UK has the capability to negotiate independently and worldwide.

I am not for one moment suggesting there won’t be bumps in the road with these two points, nor that other aspects of leaving the EU wouldn’t make the overall picture more challenging. But, for me, those two points are reasonable approaches that are attractive.


I can see that those two points look attractive when presented in the way that you have. But the reality is not looking that way. Even ardent Leavers are now stating/admitting that we are going to be poorer because of Brexit.

To me it is not logical to make yourself poorer just so you can theoretically make a trade deal with another country (that might never happen) or so that you can make your own law on how bendy bananas are (that’s humorous, I know the bendy banana thing is rubbish).

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:42 pm

I kind of think May was telling the truth when she answered that question. She hasn't really considered her position. The problem is it's terrible piece of politics. She's also a terrible leader she hasn't actually planned anything well.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:06 pm

Apperently at least one tory MP has sided with Moggy.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-w ... s-13310776

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:16 pm

I was insulted by the assumption that I just accept anything May does. This is demonstrably wrong. This is a discussion thread and should be above petty insults. The fact that it was me saying it - I thought would hit home how crass it was.

I am crude and do say shocking things but I try and keep that to other threads.
It was the first part I was annoyed by.
Thanks for the defence Jawa but you’re wasting your breath in here.
As has been said - it’s not a discussion thread.

Moggy wrote:For £350m I'd join the Tory Party. :lol:
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PsychicSykes
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PostRe: Brexit
by PsychicSykes » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:17 pm

jawafour wrote:But, hey, I’m a glutton for punishment so here are two arguments, albeit ones that I expect have been talked over a thousand times already and that we probably won’t agree on:

1) I prefer the idea of the UK being in a position to devise and administer laws independent of outside influence.

2) I like the notion of the UK being able to approach countries worldwide and agree trading processes independent of outside influence.

While you're using these two things as examples of possible positives of Brexit, I think you've inadvertently made the case for why so many people are against it. Everything spun as a positive of leaving the EU seems to either be unimportant (The idea of changing the colour of passports for example) or as with the stuff you mentioned, an undefined concept or idea. When you're dealing with hypotheticals, it's easy to be optimistic. There cannot be any argument that Brexit is going to be a success because there is still no plan for what happens next.


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