Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
195
78%
Leave the European Union
56
22%
 
Total votes: 251
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Snowcannon
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Snowcannon » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:36 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
Moggy wrote:So May is ruling out a Scottish referendum. It will be fun to see how the SNP respond.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

I don't think she's ruling it out, she seems to be saying "Not right now"


But Mrs May said it would be "unfair" to hold a vote until the UK's future relationship with the EU became clear.

It's a valid point really. It'd be better to hold a referendum when the facts are known.


She's ruling it out on the timescale that the Scottish government wanted. Better?

I'm not so sure she is making a valid point, it's more likely she is desperate to avoid this scenario:

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Sturgeon would have to do the same though, just the other way round
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Errkal
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Errkal » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:42 pm

No she wouldn't.

Leave and we will be out of the EU but wont have the Tories in charge of our future
Stay and we will be out of the EU but will have the Tories in charge of our future.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:49 pm

Errkal wrote:No she wouldn't.

Leave and we will be out of the EU but wont have the Tories in charge of our future
Stay and we will be out of the EU but will have the Tories in charge of our future.


Exactly. Although she can also say "Leave and we will be out of the EU for a short time while we apply for re-entry".
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Lagamorph » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:52 pm

There's no guarantees it would only be a short time is the problem.

Just because Scotland fulfills most of the membership criteria right now doesn't mean they would when they go independent. There's going to be a hell of a lot of financial uncertainty to start with and it's not going to be a quick fix.
And I honestly can't see any kind of fast track membership while there are other countries already waiting.
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Errkal
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Errkal » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:53 pm

Yup, a pretty easy job for Sturgeon, which I guess is why May has gone "not right now" as there is no way in hell she can hope to win without being a hypocritical twat.
Glowy69
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Glowy69 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:32 pm

KKLEIN wrote:Some more investment in Brexit Britain...

BBC News wrote:Japanese carmaker Toyota is to invest almost a quarter of a billion pounds in its UK operations.

Toyota says it will invest £240m to upgrade the Burnaston plant near Derby to enable production of vehicles using its new global manufacturing system.

The carmaker says the investment will improve the plant's competitiveness and promote UK supply chain efficiencies.

Toyota has been making cars in the UK since 1992. The Burnaston plant makes the Auris and the Avensis models.

Last year, the plant manufactured around 180,000 vehicles. Most are exported to the EU and elsewhere in the world.

The Burnaston plant, together with Toyota's engine plant at Deeside in North Wales, employ about 3,400 workers.

The government is also providing £21.3m in funding for training, research and development and enhancements of the plants environmental performance.

In January, the UK car industry trade body, the SMMT, indicated that uncertainty around Brexit and the UK's future trading arrangements had hit investment in the sector.

It said that total committed investment announcements in the automotive sector in 2016 were approximately £1.66bn across a number of companies. This figure was down from £2.5bn in 2015.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39289269



Funny thing is. They've just laid off hundreds at their derby plant. Citing brexit as the reason. My mate was one of them.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:51 pm

Lagamorph wrote:There's no guarantees it would only be a short time is the problem.

Just because Scotland fulfills most of the membership criteria right now doesn't mean they would when they go independent. There's going to be a hell of a lot of financial uncertainty to start with and it's not going to be a quick fix.
And I honestly can't see any kind of fast track membership while there are other countries already waiting.


I never said it would be a short time, I said Sturgeon can say that it will only be a short time.

Personally I think Scotland would get back into the EU pretty quickly. They cover almost all of the checklist, the only dicey part might be the economic situation but I would imagine that even if that is a problem, it will be overlooked in order to stick two fingers up at the English Tories that are bound to be pissing off the whole of the EU at that point.
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captain red dog
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by captain red dog » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:10 pm

There is absolutely no way Scotland would get back in quickly. It would take at least a decade and that is assuming Spain doesn't veto.

If they went in now, they would be subjected to austerity of Greece proportions.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:16 pm

captain red dog wrote:If they went in now, they would be subjected to austerity of Greece proportions.


Based on?
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captain red dog
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by captain red dog » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:22 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:If they went in now, they would be subjected to austerity of Greece proportions.


Based on?

Their economic situation. They simply would not be able to cope with the expenditure on all their social programmes, healthcare, education etc.
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lex-man
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by lex-man » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:43 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:If they went in now, they would be subjected to austerity of Greece proportions.


Based on?

Their economic situation. They simply would not be able to cope with the expenditure on all their social programmes, healthcare, education etc.


I don't know the Scottish economy isn't actually that bad. They also have a relatively small population.

I could see a case where it'd be better for them outside of the UK as Westminster would pull funding from them to fund other parts of the UK.
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Moggy
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:46 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:If they went in now, they would be subjected to austerity of Greece proportions.


Based on?

Their economic situation. They simply would not be able to cope with the expenditure on all their social programmes, healthcare, education etc.


Scotland is a net contributor to the UK overall. They are hardly a basket case like Greece.
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Lagamorph » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:02 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:If they went in now, they would be subjected to austerity of Greece proportions.


Based on?

Their economic situation. They simply would not be able to cope with the expenditure on all their social programmes, healthcare, education etc.


Scotland is a net contributor to the UK overall. They are hardly a basket case like Greece.

Aren't Scotland actually now benefitting from the Barnett formula now due to the reduction in oil prices rather than contributing?
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Moggy
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Moggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:06 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:If they went in now, they would be subjected to austerity of Greece proportions.


Based on?

Their economic situation. They simply would not be able to cope with the expenditure on all their social programmes, healthcare, education etc.


Scotland is a net contributor to the UK overall. They are hardly a basket case like Greece.

Aren't Scotland actually now benefitting from the Barnett formula now due to the reduction in oil prices rather than contributing?


Well maybe, the last figures I saw were from the last referendum.

Either way, they are hardly a Greek style economy.
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captain red dog
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by captain red dog » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:18 pm

Not a Greek style economy no, but they would have to have much more severe austerity than they have had under the UK umbrella. They would also have to take the euro.

Plus they would have to take into account that just with hard Brexit, they would be getting a hard exit from the UK no doubt which will mean the removal of all naval bases north of the border. On the bright side they would lose Trident too but with that comes jobs...
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Lagamorph » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:20 pm

I seriously doubt there'd be any real desire in the leadership of Scotland or the UK for a hard Scotland exit. It'd be terrible for both sides and literally nobody would benefit.
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Nibble
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Nibble » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:32 pm

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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by KK » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:46 pm

John Curtice (BBC's election night pollster) on Sky News earlier thought a delayed referendum favours Leave.
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Return_of_the_STAR » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:03 pm

Nibble wrote:


Well that's bollocks as post Brexit we currently have no clue what their voting rights would be.
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Karl
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PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave
by Karl » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:26 pm

I am sure a posh English politician telling the Scots "no, you aren't allowed to have a referendum" will work out great.

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