Brexit

Some quotes from Nick Glegg on BBC Today (on iPlayer)

It is a bit like staring at any empty building site and saying we made progress because we made a cup of tea.

There has been no material progress of anything at all.

We have wasted a year. This Government have wasted a year. They still have not come forward with a coherent vision. They produce these rather insubstantial small technical papers as a surrogate for that.

I think some of their [the EU] negotiating positions are a little unduly.

It is extremely difficult for the EU to know what to do when we asked as a country to leave the European club.

So basically, immigration exactly as it is now since it's demonstrably true that immigration benefits the country as a whole?

KK wrote:"British jobs for British workers" was originally a Labour sentiment, so nothing out of the ordinary there at all. It was a hollow jesture at the time because it was ultimately unenforceable.

No it wasn't. The National Front and the BNP used it before Gordon Brown. Which makes it worse that the daft twat tried to run with it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7097837.stm

It'll please the Daily Mail UKIPPY types but we will look like disgusting nationalists if we try and enact those leaked proposals. Well, even more disgusting than we already do.

Photek wrote:

Squinty wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/05/leaked-document-reveals-uk-brexit-plan-to-deter-eu-immigrants

Who would want to come here?

Edit -

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng- ... e-document

Crikey. Some of these points. I reiterate, who would want to come here??

Just skimmed the start, employers must look to employ residents....is that legal? That's Nazi Germany 101!

Em I'm not sure if you've worded that weirdly but that happens in many countries around Europe if it simply refers to certain roles requiring residency status. As a personal example, the Netherlands require every worker to have a residency permit.

We shouldn't be too hasty to cast Britain as a racist nation on the shores of the pure EU. Choose any country at random and you'll likely see a resurgent far-right and policies aimed at curbing migration. Britain probably remains one of the most tolerant nations on earth.


Not to defend any of these proposals because they're strawberry floating mental bullshit which will decrease tolerance in our society and massively damage the economy.

If your education system doesn't make nationals from that country among the best candidates for a job then there is something obviously wrong with it.

Rocsteady wrote:Choose any country at random and you'll likely see a resurgent far-right and policies aimed at curbing migration.

The Republic of Ireland and Germany?

We don't have a right wing anything in politics in RoI.

twitter.com/brexit/status/893829728272093188

Photek wrote:

Rocsteady wrote:Choose any country at random and you'll likely see a resurgent far-right and policies aimed at curbing migration.

The Republic of Ireland and Germany?

We don't have a right wing anything in politics in RoI.

https://www.thelocal.de/20170815/far-ri ... poll-finds

I said likely, not every single nation. It's not like Ireland's some magical political haven either. I could just have easily seperated Scotland as a nation and claimed the same, plus we at least have legal abortions.

Knew you'd go there, we're voting to repeal the 8th next year. It's in our constitution.

Right wing party in Germany is on 8%? How is that proving your point?

This is the UK government right now, who are in power with the DUP. Absurd to compare the 2.

Photek wrote:Knew you'd go there, we're voting to repeal the 8th next year. It's in our constitution.

Regardless, my initial point was that the UK is still more centrist than many of the nations in the EU so to tell us to strawberry float off for that reason is pretty ridiculous.

Nothing right wing about Ireland?

Ireland to fight EU order to collect €13bn in back taxes from Apple

They actively fought against an EU ruling telling them to redistribute wealth.

Well it's how I feel. Collating right wing opinion with a government in power is disingenuous. It's also the typical argument from the right, the 'what aboutism' is truly the most vacuous of all.

Now I don't claim that the Republic is a haven nation, I have major problems with the Housing Crisis, the HSE, the gooseberry fool show of Irish Water and the current Garda enquiry but you said pick a country at random and they will have right wing policies about curbing migrants, I gave you 2 countries off the top of my head and the best you have is to say that 8% of the German electorate holds the same views.

We all have racists, there is no nation on earth that doesn't have the banana splits but if that document is an indication of the mindset of the UK government who I must stress again are in power, then I feel strongly that they shouldn't be part of the EU. Whether or not they can legally enact such policies is not the point. I'd also point out that the Conservatives are power sharing with the DUP who are massively Anti Abortion and Anti Gay Marriage.

As for the Apple thing, that's a completely different argument but I support the Irish Government because it benefits RoI massively.

Knoyleo wrote:Nothing right wing about Ireland?

Ireland to fight EU order to collect €13bn in back taxes from Apple

They actively fought against an EU ruling telling them to redistribute wealth.

Read your own articles:

Not collecting €13bn is worth €19bn to the Irish economy.

The benefits are obvious in Ireland, which has the fastest-growing economy in Europe driven by the exports of about 1,000 multinationals that employ 5% of the workforce and generate nearly a quarter of economic output. Apple is the biggest private employer in the Irish Republic’s second-largest city, Cork, with a workforce exceeding 5,500. Economists estimate Apple’s Cork operation pumps around €19bn annually in salaries, tax and investment into the Irish economy.

Photek wrote:

Knoyleo wrote:Nothing right wing about Ireland?

Ireland to fight EU order to collect €13bn in back taxes from Apple

They actively fought against an EU ruling telling them to redistribute wealth.

Read your own articles:

Not collecting €13bn is worth €19bn to the Irish economy.

The benefits are obvious in Ireland, which has the fastest-growing economy in Europe driven by the exports of about 1,000 multinationals that employ 5% of the workforce and generate nearly a quarter of economic output. Apple is the biggest private employer in the Irish Republic’s second-largest city, Cork, with a workforce exceeding 5,500. Economists estimate Apple’s Cork operation pumps around €19bn annually in salaries, tax and investment into the Irish economy.

That's not what it says.

Apple's standard business operation generates 19bn for the Irish economy, but that's no excuse for them not paying their taxes. What you're advocating is trickle down economics, the idea that wealth creators are more beneficial for the economy as a whole, and those underneath, than active redistribution, which is the epitome of modern right wing economic thinking.

We're a tax haven for big companies, it works to the MASSIVE benefit of Ireland, just because you're labelling it a right wing policy is not what we are talking about here, we don't have a party in power or at all that is calling for curbing migrants and/or has draconian views on the free movement of EU citizens.

Photek wrote:We're a tax haven for big companies, it works to the MASSIVE benefit of Ireland, just because you're labelling it a right wing policy is not what we are talking about here, we don't have a party in power or at all that is calling for curbing migrants and/or has draconian views on the free movement of EU citizens.

It is right wing.

Photek wrote:We don't have a right wing anything in politics in RoI.

"Not what we're talking about"

First of all, we ARE talking about curbing immigration and secondly you are ignoring the fact that 'trickle down' economics (call it whatever you want) is a MASSIVE gain for RoI. We'd be f***ed without it.

Educate yourself on the Irish economy a bit:
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/corporate-tax-ireland-apple-2443457-Nov2015/

I agree with Knoyleo, letting big companies not pay tax because they provide more for the people in other ways is a right wing policy.

The idea is you let the rich companies pay less tax and because of that they have more money to employ more people etc. and so everyone benefits, they are rich and the wealth "works its way down" to the people because business does well.

It is working as a system in Ireland and that's awesome, but however you want to think of it, it is the same right wing trickle down policy, the difference is it is actually working to a degree and not just allowing businesses and rich folk to horde the money.

Errkal wrote:It is working as a system in Ireland and that's awesome, but however you want to think of it, it is the same right wing trickle down policy, the difference is it is actually working to a degree and not just allowing businesses and rich folk to horde the money.

It's not just working, its essential to our Economy.

This is it, this is our competitive advantage. Yes, we have a well educated workforce – Though US firms have warned us in the past over grade inflation. Yes, we speak English. Yes, we are well positioned at the edge of Europe. Yes, it is easy to bring in multilingual and other talent when you can’t find it indigenously. Yes, we have a stable environment in which to do business. So does the UK, so does the Netherlands, so does any one of a number of our peers.
The CEO of an IDA supported company once told me blank that while Sandyford had nice views and The Shelbourne wasn’t a bad hotel at all, he’d be gone to London in a flash if he got the same tax deal.
So the next time you hear that the Irish state is prepared to fight the EU Commission over purported tax deal investigations, don’t roll your eyes. The Irish state isn’t fighting for corporate profits, it’s fighting for the jobs that we have in this country thanks to our corporate tax regime.
The Eurocrats and the left and the begrudgers can think again – tax competitiveness is the foundation stone that built Irish prosperity and that will drag us out of the mess we’ve been in the past years.

Can't believe I have to once again explain this.

If it's a right wing policy then apologies, we have 1 right wing policy because of our Tax Laws, but its not what we're talking about is it?

Photek wrote:First of all, we ARE talking about curbing immigration and secondly you are ignoring the fact that 'trickle down' economics (call it whatever you want) is a MASSIVE gain for RoI. We'd be f***ed without it.

Educate yourself on the Irish economy a bit:
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/corporate-tax-ireland-apple-2443457-Nov2015/

I'm aware of Ireland's position as an English speaking tax haven within the EU, thanks.

Who do you think the actual beneficiaries of Ireland's relatively booming economy are in such a low tax environment? It's not being shared or equally, and keeping massive firms there for the benefit of the wealthy is a false economy as inequality and in work poverty rises.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/desp ... 3?mode=amp

The share of gross income going to the top 1 per cent of earners increased from 34 per cent in 2011 to 39 per cent this year. And over half of the increase in total income (€21 billion) over the last five years has gone to the top 10 per cent of earners. The bottom 50 per cent of earners received just 6 per cent of that increased income. This highlights an inequality in employment and wage growth in the recovery, with a more polarised work force, an rise in low-paid jobs, low-hours employment and precarious work.

The minimum wage, for example, remains 20 per cent lower than the living wage of €11.50 per hour. Ireland’s progressive income tax and social protection spending does reduce this “gross” income inequality (the highest in the EU) and results in a net income inequality at the EU average. However, Ireland’s net income inequality has also risen in recent years, and an accurate assessment of economic inequality requires inclusion of other measures (such as wealth, poverty, public services, taxation, cost of living) which Tasc provides in our recent report Cherishing All Equally 2016.