Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
206
79%
Leave the European Union
54
21%
 
Total votes: 260
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:00 pm

Photek wrote:What I don't understand is that 90% of the comments are pro brexit, why on earth is that?


Russia. ;)

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:16 pm

There’s going to be a final vote in Parliament

But :slol:

It’ll be a vote of leaving either with the deal that’s struck, or no deal at all

That’s a blinder played there by David Davis :x

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:18 pm

BID0 wrote:There’s going to be a final vote in Parliament

But :slol:

It’ll be a vote of leaving either with the deal that’s struck, or no deal at all

That’s a blinder played there by David Davis :x


Isn't that reliant on a deal actually being struck in the first place.

The vote might as well be no deal or no deal.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:50 pm

lex-man wrote:
BID0 wrote:There’s going to be a final vote in Parliament

But :slol:

It’ll be a vote of leaving either with the deal that’s struck, or no deal at all

That’s a blinder played there by David Davis :x


Isn't that reliant on a deal actually being struck in the first place.

The vote might as well be no deal or no deal.


Yeah it’s just going to get to the vote and Davis will just smugly say “LOL WE DIDN'T AGREE ANY DEAL” and there’ll be nothing for MPs to vote on.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:14 pm

Moggy wrote:
lex-man wrote:
BID0 wrote:There’s going to be a final vote in Parliament

But :slol:

It’ll be a vote of leaving either with the deal that’s struck, or no deal at all

That’s a blinder played there by David Davis :x


Isn't that reliant on a deal actually being struck in the first place.

The vote might as well be no deal or no deal.


Yeah it’s just going to get to the vote and Davis will just smugly say “LOL WE DIDN'T AGREE ANY DEAL” and there’ll be nothing for MPs to vote on.

"It is not the case that an exit deal actually exists"

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:41 pm

This can’t be right. We must have the chance to just pull out of Brexit altogether if the deal is no good. Davis is a banana split saying this. I hope he dies tomorrow.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:14 pm

The government are hilarious. I wish this wasn't my country so that I could just look on in disbelief rather than anger.

At the very least I would expect that parliament be given the option to vote for us to delay Brexit with the EUs permission obviously rather than the options being no Deal or crap deal. A vote for further negotiation should be an option. I'm confident than the EU would allow an extension to the leaving date.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:27 pm




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Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:33 pm

Karl wrote:Crashing out with no deal will be an economic crisis. Will there be an actual for-real famine? No. Will prices go up, and will stock get patchy, and will even more people top up their fridges via food banks? Yes. We know this because those things happen every economic crisis, and every indication is that this would be a bad one.

That does not seem at all plausible. There could be some problems with stores resupplying after a couple of weeks due to the inability to handle imports fast enough, so potentially some bare shelves in supermarkets for certain products and the like, but no one would actually starve.

The ironic thing is that crashing out would probably almost immediately create a large majority for remain and allow a second ref to be won... right after it's too late.

That may happen with or without a deal. The hard-line Brexiteers will never change there minds but we should remember that a large number of leave voters believed the lie that this would be completely painless, that we had nothing to lose. If Vote Leave had been more truthful and argued "there will be short term pain for few years but we think it will be worth it" they would have never won and they knew it, hence the lies. Even now there is a gobsmacking number of people who don't think Brexit will make them any worse off at all. It wouldn't take much real hardship to make reality dawn.

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Karl
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PostRe: Brexit
by Karl » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:37 pm

Meep wrote:
Karl wrote:Crashing out with no deal will be an economic crisis. Will there be an actual for-real famine? No. Will prices go up, and will stock get patchy, and will even more people top up their fridges via food banks? Yes. We know this because those things happen every economic crisis, and every indication is that this would be a bad one.

That does not seem at all plausible. There could be some problems with stores resupplying after a couple of weeks due to the inability to handle imports fast enough, so potentially some bare shelves in supermarkets for certain products and the like, but no one would actually starve.

Where did I say people would starve? Don't try your smug contrarian nonsense on with me.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:01 am

I've read it could take around six months to get food imports back to normal. Although that said I doubt we'd stave, it'd probably just mean everyone would be eating tinned and frozen food for a while. I'm guessing big retailers would take some kind of action to try and stop from totally running out of food.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:05 am

lex-man wrote:I've read it could take around six months to get food imports back to normal. Although that said I doubt we'd stave, it'd probably just mean everyone would be eating tinned and frozen food for a while. I'm guessing big retailers would take some kind of action to try and stop from totally running out of food.


Do you remember when people used to moan about petrol going up a penny? That seems like an ice age ago now.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:21 am

So, this exit date set in stone thing, are we actually going for a transitional period or what? Or has that changed now?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:25 am

Squinty wrote:So, this exit date set in stone thing, are we actually going for a transitional period or what? Or has that changed now?


I think the exit date is the exit date. Any transitional period would just be an extension to that date. We'd technically be out, just with an agreement to follow the rules and get the benefits for a bit.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:34 am

Squinty wrote:So, this exit date set in stone thing, are we actually going for a transitional period or what? Or has that changed now?


Everything is moving at such a fast pace that this could be the first of many concessions so what will happen is very unpredictable. I would likely imagine this will be the death of Hard Brexit.

Thing is, David Davis is still trying to play chicken. Every MP in their right mind knows that No Deal will mean almost insta-recession, so as much as he may say it's this deal or No Deal, the reality is this country cannot accept a no deal situation. No Deal isn't simply hard Brexit, it's wholly unprepared pulling of the drip out of the UK. Anyone who honestly thinks 'walking away'in the simplest terms of bot agreeing anything at all is a delusional idiot plain and simple.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:49 am

This is a good thread on the options available and why MPs strawberry floated themselves (an therefore us!) over.


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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:59 am

How is this a surprise? Didn't parliament effectively vote to neuter themselves back when article 50 was passed?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:22 am

Meep wrote:
Karl wrote:Crashing out with no deal will be an economic crisis. Will there be an actual for-real famine? No. Will prices go up, and will stock get patchy, and will even more people top up their fridges via food banks? Yes. We know this because those things happen every economic crisis, and every indication is that this would be a bad one.

That does not seem at all plausible. There could be some problems with stores resupplying after a couple of weeks due to the inability to handle imports fast enough, so potentially some bare shelves in supermarkets for certain products and the like, but no one would actually starve.


Well Karl says that there wouldn't be a famine, the rest of his post there isn't too ridiculous and is probably more positive than a lot of predictions.

Crashing out with no deal will be disastrous for this country. The tariffs alone will be enough to send food prices through the roof. Then we will have the extra border controls to pay for, the delays in getting things in and out of the country, the lack of agreement on food standards would harm import/export of food etc.

Britain cannot feed itself and hasn't been able to for well over 100 years. No deal will not mean starvation, but it will mean massively inflated prices that are going to badly hurt the lower middle class. The poor will be totally reliant on food banks.

The ironic thing is that crashing out would probably almost immediately create a large majority for remain and allow a second ref to be won... right after it's too late.

That may happen with or without a deal. The hard-line Brexiteers will never change there minds but we should remember that a large number of leave voters believed the lie that this would be completely painless, that we had nothing to lose. If Vote Leave had been more truthful and argued "there will be short term pain for few years but we think it will be worth it" they would have never won and they knew it, hence the lies. Even now there is a gobsmacking number of people who don't think Brexit will make them any worse off at all. It wouldn't take much real hardship to make reality dawn.


I agree with that.

I still think the blame is all going to be heaped on the EU for "bullying us" and Remainers for "talking us down". I don't think the majority of Leave voters will ever take responsibility for this or blame the liars that got us into this mess.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:02 am

Leaving without a deal will be the ultimate in self immolation. I can’t believe that sheer pigheaded ignorance is leading to this.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:12 am

I was listening to a bit of James O’Brien’s show yesterday and he was discussing the ramifications for the Irish border. I didn’t catch the whole show but the caller I heard was living in Derry and was right on the border. And I mean right on it, his house was in Northern Ireland but the extension on his house was technically in Ireland. :lol:


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