Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Nibble
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PostRe: Brexit
by Nibble » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:29 pm

A Conservative Party member directing the responsibility for this shitstorm away from their own party. Well, whodathunit?

The Tories provided the murder weapon.
The Leave voters pulled the trigger.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:36 pm

Nibble wrote:A Conservative Party member directing the responsibility for this shitstorm away from their own party. Well, whodathunit?

The Tories provided the murder weapon.
The Leave voters pulled the trigger.


And the Remain voters tamely put their heads against the barrel and crossed their fingers hoping the barrel was empty.
Brexit roulette.
Or is the victim the UK?

So the Remain vote took a step back, put their fingers in their ears whilst repeating over and over - “they’re not stupid enough to fire!”


Just to extend the hilarious, gun murder metaphor.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:39 pm

Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:Yes.


Ok, thanks. As I said it wasn't a trick question. I genuinely wondered if you'd be happy for that to be broadcast on the BBC, and that's it.


The thing is, BBC has a naturally older audience more likely to vote Leave, and Channel 4 a younger one more likely to remain. That will be reflected in their programming whatever anyone says. Considering the BBC bend over backwards to put unelected UKIPers on Question Time, they would absolutely hate to be seen as Leave centric as well, as they are publicly funded.

I personally think the channels are in a tough spot because Leave is based on a post-truth world. They cannot report the facts because there are so few that back it up. That's the real non bias, but every Leaver including yourself would cry blue murder if that was reported. That's why a Remain bias on TV is always complained about.

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:11 pm

Denster wrote:And the Remain voters tamely put their heads against the barrel and crossed their fingers hoping the barrel was empty.
Brexit roulette.
Or is the victim the UK?

So the Remain vote took a step back, put their fingers in their ears whilst repeating over and over - “they’re not stupid enough to fire!”


Just to extend the hilarious, gun murder metaphor.


What are you talking about? Most Remain voters I knew were against even having a referendum. How is that 'putting your head against the barrel'?

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:16 pm

Sorry. It’s a poor metaphor so I just extended it to an absurd conclusion.

I made a post in reply to yours and Rocsteady before which covered what I actually meant and where I felt the majority of the blame lay or lies. It just says the Remain lot are not completely blameless. Which they’re not.

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:19 pm

Denster wrote:Sorry. It’s a poor metaphor so I just extended it to an absurd conclusion.

I made a post in reply to yours and Rocsteady before which covered what I actually meant and where I felt the majority of the blame lay or lies. It just says the Remain lot are not completely blameless. Which they’re not.


OK, fair enough. I thought your previous post was reasonable enough (I'm not sure I really agree, but it wasn't unfair) so I was wondering why you had returned to the more extreme rhetoric.

But I see now you were just having fun with the metaphor. ;)

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:30 pm

What would you say the remain voters were in that metaphor?

Just for fun?

;)

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:32 pm

I would say Remain voters would be the police negotiators, pleading with the Leavers to please just put the gun down and think things through. :P

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:55 pm

The blame mostly lies with the liars who bullshitted their way to winning the referendum.

Next in the blame stakes are the ignorant bastards that believed the lies without bothering to check if the claims were true.

Next up are the horrible racist wankers that hate people based on nothing but skin colour, or in this case where people came from. I put the racists lower down because they can’t help being vile arseholes.

Next would be the absolute stupid bastards that are incapable of understanding anything. Not really their fault, they can’t help stupidity.

Then it lies with the power grabbing banana splits who were Remain campaigners/supporters but jumped ship as soon as it looked like they could personally gain from it. They know it’s going to be gooseberry fool, but carry on because it’s personally beneficial.

Then there are those that support Remain, but now think that it’s just not worth making a fuss. What’s the point? What’ll it achieve? You can’t keep having referendums, let’s just accept it.

After all of that, maybe just maybe, you can blame Remain supporters that continue to support Remain.

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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit
by Tineash » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:04 pm

At the very top of the blame list is David Cameron, for whom this was all a jolly way to win a general election.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:10 pm

Karl wrote:I would say Remain voters would be the police negotiators, pleading with the Leavers to please just put the gun down and think things through. :P

Nicely done.

:lol:

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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:11 pm

Tineash wrote:At the very top of the blame list is David Cameron, for whom this was all a jolly way to win a general election.


At least he campaigned for Remain, voted to Remain and quit when the vote went against it.

He’s a twat, but I blame Boris/Farage more.

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Nibble
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PostRe: Brexit
by Nibble » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:12 pm

Tineash wrote:At the very top of the blame list is David Cameron, for whom this was all a jolly way to win a general election.


Next up: everyone who voted for a party promising a referendum on EU membership.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:13 pm

Tineash wrote:At the very top of the blame list is David Cameron, for whom this was all a jolly way to win a general election.

He’d won the election. It was to pacify the europhobic parts of his own party. He gambled that he’d win and didn’t.

Backfired on him and cost him his job.

Poor Dave.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:23 pm

Lucien wrote:
Denster wrote:All of us who voted Remain are entitled to be angry at all the people who have been outlined by yourself and Karl.
Rightly so.
Of course they’re stupid and gullible. Yes they deserved derision and contempt for those opinions and their ignorance and deserve our ire and indignation.

I still reserve some for those who didn’t do enough. They’re no where near equally culpable but bear some responsibility.
It’s the circular argument in this thread.

I’m annoyed at myself and reproachful I didn’t do more and I’m also angry at those who didn’t vote who would have voted Remain.
But all this anger and indignation is impotent.

I would argue it doesn’t do any good or make any of you feel better.

As a psychiatric nurse - I’m not fond of getting angry and venting over issues that’s gone and can’t be got back or altered.

I think that’s where some of my frustration on this thread stems from.
We should be angry but what does it actually achieve?

Precious little I’d argue.


Not that I think you should be angry at anyone/many people at all because it's such a waste of energy, but do you not hold the EU and past UK governments accountable? I would if I was a Remain voter. Similar to how I lay some blame of not getting Scottish Independence with the SNP.


Of course we do! How can we not be angry at those people? I am angry at anyone who has caused this utter shitshow. For the millionth time, no Remain voter thinks the EU is some perfect utopia. No-one is loving Juncker to bits. They just recognise that its integral to the future endeavours of this country, and its better to be in a big alliance in a shrinking world and not outside of one. I am angry at how bad the Remain campaign was, how unenthusiastic it was, and how they were not able to drill into voters heads the lies of the Leave campaign. However Cameron calling this means he must bear the brunt of the blame.

That said, all that shrinks into comparison to people who actually voted for the damn thing. Voting UKIP makes more sense than voting for this Wonderland politics.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:46 pm

Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:That said, all that shrinks into comparison to people who actually voted for the damn thing. Voting UKIP makes more sense than voting for this Wonderland politics.


I'd put the main blame on EU immigration policy. People reacted to that and it's likely, imo, we'd not have left the EU if that aspect was different. At the very least I think we'd have stayed in it a lot longer.


I don't think theres any real problem with EU immigration policy though. Sorry. An important trade off in a more international world. An absolutely inevitable requirement.

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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit
by Tineash » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:52 pm

Denster wrote:
Tineash wrote:At the very top of the blame list is David Cameron, for whom this was all a jolly way to win a general election.

He’d won the election. It was to pacify the europhobic parts of his own party. He gambled that he’d win and didn’t.

Backfired on him and cost him his job.

Poor Dave.


It was calculated to draw in UKIP voters, and it was in the manifesto. The purpose was to win the 2015 election.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:06 pm

Tineash wrote:
Denster wrote:
Tineash wrote:At the very top of the blame list is David Cameron, for whom this was all a jolly way to win a general election.

He’d won the election. It was to pacify the europhobic parts of his own party. He gambled that he’d win and didn’t.

Backfired on him and cost him his job.

Poor Dave.


It was calculated to draw in UKIP voters, and it was in the manifesto. The purpose was to win the 2015 election.

That may have been a part of it but it was primarily to silence the naysayers in his own party. If you think differently that’s up to you. The main gambit of the 2015 election was to claim that Labour would team up with the SNP to disastrous consequences.
That was far more of a vote winner in the general election than the referendum promise. It worked like a charm.

He then called the referendum in the hope that a resounding Remain win would silence the eurosceptics in his own party.

Like I said - if you feel differently that’s your opinion.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:21 pm

Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:
Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:That said, all that shrinks into comparison to people who actually voted for the damn thing. Voting UKIP makes more sense than voting for this Wonderland politics.


I'd put the main blame on EU immigration policy. People reacted to that and it's likely, imo, we'd not have left the EU if that aspect was different. At the very least I think we'd have stayed in it a lot longer.


I don't think theres any real problem with EU immigration policy though. Sorry.


I know you don't personally. But it's beyond how we feel about it individually -- the policy has caused a great rift and I'd have expected it to.


But it's completely sensible. People think perfectly fine things are bad all the time...doesn't mean we should listen to them. All the facts don't back up the anger.

I care about logical decisions.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:01 pm

twitter.com/MarkKleinmanSky/status/922054104884633602



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