Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:07 pm

Looks like Mays “set in stone” date was actually written on a whiteboard.

She should have had a word with Ed, he knows how to actually put pledges on stone.

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:14 pm

I just burst out laughing because you reminded me of the EdStone. :lol:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 pm

Karl wrote:I just burst out laughing because you reminded me of the EdStone. :lol:


Just think how awful life would be if Ed had been elected.

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jimbojango
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PostRe: Brexit
by jimbojango » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 pm

#Brexitcancelled

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:28 pm

After Brexit we will be able to afford a new painting every week. :datass:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:42 pm

Lucien wrote:
Lucien wrote:We couldn't control the borders, is all I wanted to say.


Lagamorph wrote:We could, to the extent any reasonable person would want to.


Errkal wrote:Yeah we can, we can limit access to benefits but dont, we can limit the terms of free movement to ensure only working people etc are here but dont, we can do what we want for outside the EU.


We couldn't, and can't. You can try to limit free movement though, certainly, if that was your goal. Anyway this could go round in circles so that'll be the last I say on it.

We could though under EU law. Other EU nations did exactly those things because of that.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:53 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Lucien wrote:We couldn't control the borders, is all I wanted to say.


Lagamorph wrote:We could, to the extent any reasonable person would want to.


Errkal wrote:Yeah we can, we can limit access to benefits but dont, we can limit the terms of free movement to ensure only working people etc are here but dont, we can do what we want for outside the EU.


We couldn't, and can't. You can try to limit free movement though, certainly, if that was your goal. Anyway this could go round in circles so that'll be the last I say on it.

We could though under EU law. Other EU nations did exactly those things because of that.

Yup, others do it but our government couldn't be arsed because they had the EU as a scapegoat so it didn't matter.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:21 pm

Errkal wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Lucien wrote:We couldn't control the borders, is all I wanted to say.


Lagamorph wrote:We could, to the extent any reasonable person would want to.


Errkal wrote:Yeah we can, we can limit access to benefits but dont, we can limit the terms of free movement to ensure only working people etc are here but dont, we can do what we want for outside the EU.


We couldn't, and can't. You can try to limit free movement though, certainly, if that was your goal. Anyway this could go round in circles so that'll be the last I say on it.

We could though under EU law. Other EU nations did exactly those things because of that.

Yup, others do it but our government couldn't be arsed because they had the EU as a scapegoat so it didn't matter.


They used that as an excuse for the far right moaners, but the reason was that the government relies on the cheap labour.

If the EU migrants stop coming after Brexit then we will just allow more people from Asia/Africa. Which should please the racists no end. :lol:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:45 pm

Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Lucien wrote:We couldn't control the borders, is all I wanted to say.


Lagamorph wrote:We could, to the extent any reasonable person would want to.


Errkal wrote:Yeah we can, we can limit access to benefits but dont, we can limit the terms of free movement to ensure only working people etc are here but dont, we can do what we want for outside the EU.


We couldn't, and can't. You can try to limit free movement though, certainly, if that was your goal. Anyway this could go round in circles so that'll be the last I say on it.

We could though under EU law. Other EU nations did exactly those things because of that.

Yup, others do it but our government couldn't be arsed because they had the EU as a scapegoat so it didn't matter.


They used that as an excuse for the far right moaners, but the reason was that the government relies on the cheap labour.

If the EU migrants stop coming after Brexit then we will just allow more people from Asia/Africa. Which should please the racists no end. :lol:

The irony is that any free trade deal with China and India is going to be reliant on easier migration. India especially really wants to make it far easier for their citizens to come and live/work in the UK.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:07 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Lucien wrote:We couldn't control the borders, is all I wanted to say.


Lagamorph wrote:We could, to the extent any reasonable person would want to.


Errkal wrote:Yeah we can, we can limit access to benefits but dont, we can limit the terms of free movement to ensure only working people etc are here but dont, we can do what we want for outside the EU.


We couldn't, and can't. You can try to limit free movement though, certainly, if that was your goal. Anyway this could go round in circles so that'll be the last I say on it.

We could though under EU law. Other EU nations did exactly those things because of that.

Yup, others do it but our government couldn't be arsed because they had the EU as a scapegoat so it didn't matter.


They used that as an excuse for the far right moaners, but the reason was that the government relies on the cheap labour.

If the EU migrants stop coming after Brexit then we will just allow more people from Asia/Africa. Which should please the racists no end. :lol:

The irony is that any free trade deal with China and India is going to be reliant on easier migration. India especially really wants to make it far easier for their citizens to come and live/work in the UK.


This is what I don't understand about the immigration argument. I'm pretty confident that those who don't like someone from Poland coming here will have much more of a problem with people from Africa and the middle east.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:22 pm

twitter.com/ianjamesparsley/status/931262268972683265


Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:31 pm

We have border controls in place already.

It’s like you’ve forgotten about the story 6 years ago when Theresa May cut border budgets by so much we had no one around to check and count who was coming in. Luckily she is Prime Minister now so we can really double down on our border controls.

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:41 pm

Immigration as it happened pre-referendum was good for the country. It is possible to have a wrong opinion, and "I think EU immigration needed to be restricted" is factually wrong. It doesn't matter how strongly these Brexit people believe it, it's still wrong; it doesn't matter how much you sympathise with their reasons for believing it, it's still wrong.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:47 pm

Lucien wrote:
BID0 wrote:We have border controls in place already.

It’s like you’ve forgotten about the story 6 years ago when Theresa May cut border budgets by so much we had no one around to check and count who was coming in. Luckily she is Prime Minister now so we can really double down on our border controls.


We have border controls but can't control the borders, i.e. fully control EU immigration. :P

The only obligations the UK really has is within the common travel area, which will likely still be the case in the near future (unless that drone patrol idea was actually serious)

And even then we have full control of the CTA

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:55 pm

Sorry pal, but when there are no metrics by which a decision is sensible, it's the wrong call, and believing it's the right call is wrong. That's just my correct opinion though. ;)

EDIT: To clarify, there might be some metric by which voting to Leave is justifiable, so I wouldn't describe that as 'wrong' in an objective sense -- but the EU immigration issue is cut and dry as far as I'm concerned.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:00 pm

Lucien wrote:
BID0 wrote:We have border controls in place already.

It’s like you’ve forgotten about the story 6 years ago when Theresa May cut border budgets by so much we had no one around to check and count who was coming in. Luckily she is Prime Minister now so we can really double down on our border controls.


We have border controls but can't control the borders, i.e. fully control EU immigration. :P

But WHY do you want to control it so tightly? What possible benefit does it have to anyone for us to have the ability to just close the borders on a whim if we want?

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:36 pm

Lucien wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:But WHY do you want to control it so tightly? What possible benefit does it have to anyone for us to have the ability to just close the borders on a whim if we want?


I haven't argued that today. You said the UK can control its borders and all I said was it can't.

I do want control though for a couple of reasons: I'd like parity for EU and non-EU immigrants so they've equal chance to come here; I like the ability to set solid immigration targets if the UK wants it, as virtually every polls show it does... that's pretty much it. I don't care if immigration goes up or down, so long as the UK makes that decision.

If you disagree that's fine. It's not like we have to agree.

I know you haven't argued that, but that's pretty much the only real thing we would be able to do that we couldn't realistically do already.
If all you want is parity for EU and non-EU immigrants then why is the solution to make it harder for EU immigrants rather than easier for non-EU immigrants?

What purpose do immigration targets serve? It's literally nothing more than a meaningless arbitrary number plucked out of thin air. The number of immigrants that the UK needs to remain economically prosperous will change literally on a daily basis, an annual immigration target is 100% pointless and achieves absolutely nothing.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:43 am

Lagamorph wrote:

twitter.com/ianjamesparsley/status/931262268972683265



I misread that guys name as Ian Paisley and almost dismissed the whole thing. :lol:

It’s a good thread though and highlights just why there was “proof” (scare quotes because we can’t prove the future) that we couldn’t have free access with no responsibility.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:56 am

Boris is over here in Dublin for the lols it seems.

In other news, David Davis is apparently trying to ask individual countries to push talks onto trade despite Barnier asking for UK payments to be agreed and the border issue over here taking precedence. It's not going to wash with the EU.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:14 am

Photek wrote:Boris is over here in Dublin for the lols it seems.


You can keep him if you want.

In other news, David Davis is apparently trying to ask individual countries to push talks onto trade despite Barnier asking for UK payments to be agreed and the border issue over here taking precedence. It's not going to wash with the EU.


Davis: “Hi guys, I would like to offer you a deal. Basically Britain stops contributing at all to the European budget and Britain also gets to opt out of every law and regulation. In return, we agree to buy and sell with you and we will not charge tariffs as long as you don't charge us. How does that sound?”

Every EU member state: “ :|


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