Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:42 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:There's also a decent % of people in this country who don't like the idea of being told what to do by French and German people. Irrelevant of any notion of democracy or European parliament or any of that, it's Johnny Foreigner over there telling us what shape our bananas should be. These people probably also think Germany are just plotting their next invasion of mainland Europe and the French will run away. They're strawberry floating idiots, one and all.


That comes under the general xenophobia and hatred of foreigners.

Somebody posted a list before of EU regulations that Britain had voted against but were still implemented, it was a tiny number.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:42 pm

Neither did a majority of those who hold those views (lived through WW2).

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:01 pm

Well they don't have an excuse.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Cuttooth » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:12 pm

KK wrote:We didn't live through World War 2 though, so we can't relate to that generation's underlying distrust or hatred of Germany. That has never gone away for some. And papers like the Daily Mail and Express have a tendency to regurgitate that era amongst their readership.

I'm still interested to know whether anyone followed up on that pre-referendum poll that showed favouring Leave increasing with each age group up until the generation who actually lived through the war, which slightly favoured Remain (from memory). All other polls and results seem to group everyone over 60 or 70 together.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:58 pm

Cuttooth wrote:
KK wrote:We didn't live through World War 2 though, so we can't relate to that generation's underlying distrust or hatred of Germany. That has never gone away for some. And papers like the Daily Mail and Express have a tendency to regurgitate that era amongst their readership.

I'm still interested to know whether anyone followed up on that pre-referendum poll that showed favouring Leave increasing with each age group up until the generation who actually lived through the war, which slightly favoured Remain (from memory). All other polls and results seem to group everyone over 60 or 70 together.


I suppose what shouldn't be ignored is that the highest percentage will be those that lived through the war but then the children of those who lived through the war would also have had a high percentage of resentment, having been born just after, still struggling with rationing, still seeing the country struggling to pay off war debts etc.. also having tv but only being in black and white must have been very frustrating. That would make you incredibly angry on its own.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:51 am

Lucien wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Indeed. Millions of people believed that in order to stop millions of Muslims coming to this country we had to leave the EU as they were told that they were all coming into the EU, gaining citizenship in Germany and then they could all come over here. The problem is realistically I think if EU immigration drops then it will increase from these parts of the world. Which goes against what people thought they were voting for.


At least now the government can control immigration. It could limit the immigration of Muslims, though I doubt it will any time soon, tbh.

We have always had control of our borders though

And now we have a Prime Minister who while Home Secretary basically cut staffing levels at the borders and there was that big story of not knowing how many people entered the country illegally :slol:

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:00 am

KK wrote:We didn't live through World War 2 though, so we can't relate to that generation's underlying distrust or hatred of Germany. That has never gone away for some. And papers like the Daily Mail and Express have a tendency to regurgitate that era amongst their readership.


I also don't get this attitude of 'we beat them in the wars, we can do it again!!' Not even remotely the same thing.

Some people just want wars, and this will be used as an excuse. It's doubtful it will ever happen, but when you have Lord Howard talking about conflict over Gibraltar, it puts that small worry in the back of my head.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:55 am

Squinty wrote:
KK wrote:We didn't live through World War 2 though, so we can't relate to that generation's underlying distrust or hatred of Germany. That has never gone away for some. And papers like the Daily Mail and Express have a tendency to regurgitate that era amongst their readership.


I also don't get this attitude of 'we beat them in the wars, we can do it again!!' Not even remotely the same thing.

Some people just want wars, and this will be used as an excuse. It's doubtful it will ever happen, but when you have Lord Howard talking about conflict over Gibraltar, it puts that small worry in the back of my head.


We struggled to beat Germany last time and that was with the help of Russia and the USA. The idea that we could take on the whole of the EU (I doubt they would leave Spain to fight alone) while also pissing all over the NATO treaty is absolutely absurd.

Michael Howard is a fool but it doesn't really matter as we are not going to go to war with Spain.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:58 am

Has anyone from government come out and ridiculed Howard yet?

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:22 am

I doubt they would. I imagine that the sun and daily mail would get stuck in if they pointed out the problems with war against Spain.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:39 am

I doubt they will say gooseberry fool, I imagine May is moist with the idea of being able to have her own war to prove she is awesome and a modern day Thatcher, freeer of the people and defender of Great Britain.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:50 am

Anyway, strawberry float Gibraltar, I think we should go get Aquitaine back. :datass:

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Samuel_1
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PostRe: Brexit
by Samuel_1 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:18 am

Errkal wrote:I doubt they will say gooseberry fool, I imagine May is moist with the idea of being able to have her own war to prove she is awesome and a modern day Thatcher, freeer of the people and defender of Great Britain.

It's amazing that people fondly remember Thatcher as a great Prime-minister, she was a strawberry floating disaster and before the Falklands war, she was deeply unpopular. Because of her we now have a joke of a public transport system and energy companies that charge way over the odds. Somethings should never be for profit and those are 2 of them, in my opinion; every penny made should go back into infrastructure.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Samuel_1 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:18 am

Errkal wrote:I doubt they will say gooseberry fool, I imagine May is moist with the idea of being able to have her own war to prove she is awesome and a modern day Thatcher, freeer of the people and defender of Great Britain.

It's amazing that people fondly remember Thatcher as a great Prime-minister, she was a strawberry floating disaster and before the Falklands war, she was deeply unpopular. Because of her we now have a joke of a public transport system and energy companies that charge way over the odds. Somethings should never be for profit and those are 2 of them, in my opinion; every penny made should go back into infrastructure.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit
by captain red dog » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:20 am

War with Europe seems like a pure fantasy being pushed by Remainers here, but militarily the UK is far and away the most advanced and well equipped nation in Europe, by some considerable margin.

The comments by the Tories at the weekend were incredibly clumsy and an own goal in some respects, but the intent was to make it absolutely clear that there will be no negotiation on Gibraltar. Certain sections of the media have tried to turn it into something it wasn't.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:43 am

From today's Sun:

Kelvin MACKENZIE wrote:WE are only just into these Brexit negotiations and to be honest I have already gone from jaw-jaw to war-war.

There was a suggestion the other day that we should reduce the size of our Royal Marine corps.

No we shouldn’t — we should be increasing it, with more brave fighters like Sergeant Alexander Blackman encouraged to sign up.

And as we are beginning to discover, our friends in Europe are quickly turning out to be our foes.

It’s only in recent history where Germany and Italy have been on our side.

Take the creeps running Spain.

Thanks to Brexit they are flexing their muscles over Gibraltar.

Could I remind them the locals have made clear in vote after vote that they don’t want the donkey rogerers running their efficient little outpost.

Unless the Spanish butt out I suggest Mrs May threatens the following:

We tell the 12million Brits who head to Spain each year not to bother. All Spanish flights are denied airspace.

Scottish fishing quotas up to the value of £65million are being surrendered to Spanish and Dutch trawlers. The Spanish deal ends.

125,000 Spaniards are working in the UK. Say adios, Manuel.

A special import tax on Rioja.

Scrap the planned royal visit from Spain in the summer.

We have plenty of cards to play and a bigger armed service always concentrates the mind.

Reagan used to have a sign on his desk saying: “If you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.”

For balls, read cojones.


TREVOR KAVANAGH Skewsflash! BBC is STILL Brexit bashing, despite our growing economy and jobs boom

TO the regret and dismay of gloomy Remainers, the British economy is powering ahead on all fronts.

Every single indicator has been flashing gold since the June 23 referendum.

The UK is the fastest-growing economy in the Western world — ahead of Germany and even America.

We are enjoying a jobs miracle which is the envy of Europe, with unemployment below five per cent — less than half the EU average. Even can-do America is asking how we did it.

Exports are booming after a welcome fall in Sterling, trimming state borrowing and easing the burden on taxpayers. We might even begin paying off our huge national debt.

By any standards, this is a remarkable picture worth headlines on our biggest news network.

But have you seen a BBC programme showing Brexit in a positive light — or suggesting there might be an upside to leaving Europe?

Perhaps more to the point, have you seen ANY programmes at all about the downsides of EU membership — or the economic chaos inflicted by its blunders?

Even the Pope has condemned Brussels for treating its 450million citizens with contempt. Yet our public
service broadcaster — funded to the tune of £3.7BILLION by licence payers — remains mute.

The Beeb will not tell you that, while Britain is a success story, most of the EU is wallowing in debt and stagnation.

Or that tens of millions of young people under 25 are on the jobs scrapheap while any work that does
come up is taken by migrants on low wages.

Indeed, it is because so many EU jobless are flocking to find work here that our own immigration figures are so high. If the number of French people living in London moved to France, they could form
that nation’s sixth largest city!

You won’t see that on Newsnight. Indeed, the BBC seems to believe the hopes and dreams of our own young people have been trashed by Brexit.

The BBC rarely mentions the EU sovereign debt which will impoverish today’s children as they reach middle age. Nor will you hear from them about Italy’s teetering banks or France’s unaffordable welfare bill or the violence involving migrants who can’t or won’t integrate.

The BBC categorically denies pro-Brussels bias, while at the same time acting as an echo chamber for the most outrageous claims of Europe’s leading lights at home and abroad.

For the Beeb, it is the Brexiteers who lied and cheated their way to victory by promising to transfer our EU contributions to the NHS.

There is no criticism of Project Fear’s grotesque exaggerations — all of which have been systematically proved false. The most blatant example of bias came last week, as Theresa May penned her carefully pitched letter triggering Article 50 in which she stressed the security risk from a bad deal.

The BBC — among others, to be fair — exploded over what it portrayed as “threats” and “blackmail”. Yet there was no such outrage when the EU demanded £50BILLION up front before Britain is allowed to quit the union.

Or when Spain made a sneaky grab for Gibraltar. For the BBC, it was somehow OUR fault for not seeing that one coming.

Auntie is playing a double game. It claims to be unbiased while simultaneously preaching a non-stop diatribe of anti-Brexit propaganda.

Last week, BBC boss Tony Hall was presented with a dossier showing its interview slots are stuffed with Remainers at the expense of those who actually won the referendum.

He loftily waved the allegation aside.

But the whole tone of the BBC, from news to comedy, is seamlessly hostile to Brexit and fawningly sympathetic to Remainers. Question Time audiences are a disgrace.

Theresa May has to expect political antagonism, whether it comes from SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon, EU boss Jean-Claude Juncker or French President Francois Hollande.

But at a time of crucial negotiations on the United Kingdom’s economic and constitutional future, the publicly funded BBC should be above reproach.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:51 am

captain red dog wrote:War with Europe seems like a pure fantasy being pushed by Remainers here, but militarily the UK is far and away the most advanced and well equipped nation in Europe, by some considerable margin.

The comments by the Tories at the weekend were incredibly clumsy and an own goal in some respects, but the intent was to make it absolutely clear that there will be no negotiation on Gibraltar. Certain sections of the media have tried to turn it into something it wasn't.


It might be a fantasy but it was pushed by Michael Howard. Who is one of yours.

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Death's Head
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PostRe: Brexit
by Death's Head » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:00 am

The Gibraltar thing is BS. I was thinking the other day that surely Spain would not be able to use this to their advantage, but I've read today something that said EU will give Spain a say on things (when I was expecting them to slap Spain down over this). Gibraltar was under British rule before we joined the EU and should be no part of any exit negotiations. This just serves to strengthen leaver's views.

Yes?
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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:01 am

Nice to see the Sun hasn't evolved at all in the last 30 years, you could have copy and pasted that entire article from around '84.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:02 am

The idea of war might be BS, but it gives a good indication of what some top ranking Tories think.

How does it strengthen Leaver views? Other than the BS "the EU is picking on us!"?


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