Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:54 pm

Taking my personal feeling out of it, I'm fascinated to see where this ends up. So many factors are at play. Anyone who says they know the endgame right now has to be a liar!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:02 pm

DML wrote:Taking my personal feeling out of it, I'm fascinated to see where this ends up. So many factors are at play. Anyone who says they know the endgame right now has to be a liar!


The true endgame is probably decades away. We might not even live to see the end of it.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:30 pm

Hexx wrote:So...

The EU want a hard border with the UK unless they stay in the SM/CU
The DUP will not accept any border between mainland UK and NI
The UK says it will not remain in the SM/CU*
Irish Gov. will not all talks to progress to trade unless it's guaranteed there's no borders
WTO rules means if we trade on them (no deal) there has to be a hard border.

The only "outcome" of all those options is no deal, hard border right?

(*technically it would, but it won't accept the other conditions of FoM and arbitration from other people. We're British for Christ Sakes! Who do those upstarts think they are?)


The question is if there's no Deal and the EU want to impose a hard border would the Irish accept it?

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:38 pm

Moggy wrote:The true endgame is probably decades away. We might not even live to see the end of it.

This reads like Molyneux announcing Fable 4.

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OrangeRKN
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PostRe: Brexit
by OrangeRKN » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:46 pm

Karl wrote:
Moggy wrote:The true endgame is probably decades away. We might not even live to see the end of it.

This reads like Molyneux announcing Fable 4.


This got me

Imagine an app where all the players are controlling who can or can't cross the northern ireland border

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:50 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:
Karl wrote:
Moggy wrote:The true endgame is probably decades away. We might not even live to see the end of it.

This reads like Molyneux announcing Fable 4.


This got me

Imagine an app where all the players are controlling who can or can't cross the northern ireland border


I’m cool with it as long as I get a dog.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:53 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Hexx wrote:So...

The EU want a hard border with the UK unless they stay in the SM/CU
The DUP will not accept any border between mainland UK and NI
The UK says it will not remain in the SM/CU*
Irish Gov. will not all talks to progress to trade unless it's guaranteed there's no borders
WTO rules means if we trade on them (no deal) there has to be a hard border.

The only "outcome" of all those options is no deal, hard border right?

(*technically it would, but it won't accept the other conditions of FoM and arbitration from other people. We're British for Christ Sakes! Who do those upstarts think they are?)


The question is if there's no Deal and the EU want to impose a hard border would the Irish accept it?

It's kind of a weird situation.
Ireland could veto a hard border, but then that means the UK would get benefits of an open border with the EU despite contributing nothing, which is something every other member would want to veto.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Garth
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Location: Norn Iron

PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:55 pm

Moggy wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:
Karl wrote:
Moggy wrote:The true endgame is probably decades away. We might not even live to see the end of it.

This reads like Molyneux announcing Fable 4.


This got me

Imagine an app where all the players are controlling who can or can't cross the northern ireland border


I’m cool with it as long as I get a dog.


We're in the darkest timeline, the dog dies m8.

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Hypes
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Location: Beyond the wall

PostRe: Brexit
by Hypes » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:03 pm

I'm just looking forward to defecating on Nazi Nigel's grave

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:49 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Hexx wrote:So...

The EU want a hard border with the UK unless they stay in the SM/CU
The DUP will not accept any border between mainland UK and NI
The UK says it will not remain in the SM/CU*
Irish Gov. will not all talks to progress to trade unless it's guaranteed there's no borders
WTO rules means if we trade on them (no deal) there has to be a hard border.

The only "outcome" of all those options is no deal, hard border right?

(*technically it would, but it won't accept the other conditions of FoM and arbitration from other people. We're British for Christ Sakes! Who do those upstarts think they are?)


The question is if there's no Deal and the EU want to impose a hard border would the Irish accept it?

It's kind of a weird situation.
Ireland could veto a hard border, but then that means the UK would get benefits of an open border with the EU despite contributing nothing, which is something every other member would want to veto.


Indeed. I'm hopeful it won't get to that but going on the current positions it's a likely scenario.

Currently Ireland seem to be directing attention towards the UK as you would expect but the closer you get to no deal their attention could flip the other way.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:51 pm

The only possible solution then is reunification of Ireland.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:57 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:The only possible solution then is reunification of Ireland.

How much support for that is there in Ireland and Northern Ireland though?

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:17 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:The only possible solution then is reunification of Ireland.

How much support for that is there in Ireland and Northern Ireland though?


Pretty much 50/50 in Ireland.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0304/85722 ... d-ireland/

Northern Ireland leans towards remaining in the UK but most would like a referendum on it at some point (apologies for a Sun link).

https://www.thesun.ie/news/1716563/more ... y-reveals/

A hard Brexit with a hard border could easily tip those poll numbers though.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:21 pm

How likely is a referendum going to be though? The DUP would never put it forward and unless Sinn Fein start getting involved in the Westminster parliamentary process is there ever likely going to be much of a real push in government for a referendum to take place?
A hard Brexit border having a negative effect on Northern Ireland could also push things the other way in Ireland, where you end up in a situation where people may feel that taking on NI is a burden rather than a benefit because of how poorly the country is doing.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Squinty
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Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:36 pm

Lagamorph wrote:How likely is a referendum going to be though? The DUP would never put it forward and unless Sinn Fein start getting involved in the Westminster parliamentary process is there ever likely going to be much of a real push in government for a referendum to take place?
A hard Brexit border having a negative effect on Northern Ireland could also push things the other way in Ireland, where you end up in a situation where people may feel that taking on NI is a burden rather than a benefit because of how poorly the country is doing.


I'm fairly sure that reunification will happen but it will maybe take decades for people to become comfortable with it. Sounds callous but change will come when the older generation die off. My belief is that the younger generation coming up will have a more rounded opinion on the way forward. Hopefully all the sectarian bullshit gets left where it belongs, in the past.

For talk sake, if a referendum was held, the thought of a United Ireland outcome would be terrifying at this moment in time. And you raise a good point, economically, we don't bring enough forward.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:36 pm

Lagamorph wrote:How likely is a referendum going to be though? The DUP would never put it forward and unless Sinn Fein start getting involved in the Westminster parliamentary process is there ever likely going to be much of a real push in government for a referendum to take place?
A hard Brexit border having a negative effect on Northern Ireland could also push things the other way in Ireland, where you end up in a situation where people may feel that taking on NI is a burden rather than a benefit because of how poorly the country is doing.


As with everything at the moment, who the hell knows what’s going to happen! Everything is up in the air really and it’s hard to predict when we don’t know how thing will look in a few years time.

Personally I think a United Ireland is inevitable one day, but I think it’s quite a long way off (unless Brexit really strawberry floats Ulster up!).

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:50 pm

Daily Mail commenters have the solutions to the Irish being “ungrateful” to the UK.

twitter.com/dmreporter/status/933073561329307648



:dread:

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Photek
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Location: Dublin

PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:23 pm

England really has some Grade A banana splits. Funny how they mostly come from the Brexit side.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:30 pm

twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/933057569953902593


Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lex-Man » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:59 pm

Moggy wrote:Daily Mail commenters have the solutions to the Irish being “ungrateful” to the UK.

twitter.com/dmreporter/status/933073561329307648



:dread:


My mind boggles that people would write stuff like that.

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