Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
206
79%
Leave the European Union
54
21%
 
Total votes: 260
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Thu May 04, 2017 10:47 am

Qikz wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Interesting from tonight's French debate that Macron insisted that France only pay €6bn to the EU. Le Pen said it was €9bn. Whoever is right the figure is still far lower than what the UK pays in. It would mean that we pay more than double what France does even with our rebate if you take Macrons figures.

I've always wondered why France have always managed to get such a cushy number in the EU.


We had the cushiest deal in the EU. We had so many concessions we shouldn't have had.


Whilst we had a lot of concessions France I think had the best deal overall. The money they received through CAP for decades was phenomenal and destroyed the farming industry elsewhere throughout the EU. Even with our rebate we were still paying more in than France and getting less back despite our economies and population being very similar.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Fri May 05, 2017 11:37 am

Just when you thought that there's no further depths of stupidity for the UK to sink to, that we've finally reached peak stupid, a whole new vista of stupid yawns open.

The UK inexplicably voted to inflict serious harm on ourselves, and to inflict collateral damage on our closest allies. Now we’re simply amazed that the EU doesn’t just want to roll over and let us do what we want. But…but…we’re Britain! Don’t they know that? Why are they so vindictive? Why are they picking on us?

We choose Theresa May, the most awkward, stilted, charmless politician in recorded history to negotiate on our behalf. She predictably humiliates herself, and the UK, and then we blame the European press for pointing it out. Our own press foams at the mouth, spitting venom every day, but we expect the European press to be impartial. Why?

We disregard all logic and economic expertise, and make a stupid political decision to Brexit. Now we’re astounded that the EU are also prioritising political imperatives over economic ones, by making it difficult for us. Why do we expect completely different standards from the EU than we apply to ourselves?
There seems to be very little awareness in the UK, and definitely not from the government, that we’re the ones doing all this. The EU are just reacting, logically and predictably, to protect their own interests against our senseless, mindless, stupid actions. They’re not doing anything to us. We’re not victims here.

What’s happening now is what was always predicted, by everyone who knows anything about these things: the ridiculous fantasies of the Brexit campaign are coming into contact with reality, like a cruise liner grinding into an iceberg. And the magic beans salesmen who brought us here are busy blaming the EU for the mess they created.


Comment from a Guardian article

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... pe-liberal

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri May 05, 2017 12:23 pm

God newspaper columnists really do love writing overblown, hyperbolic, clickbait driven, mood-killing, Britain-hating, WORLD-hating shite.

I think I would rather be apart of the somewhat vacuous, non-voting, bereft of political interest Instagram generation than the miserable, self-loathing misery vacuums that newspapers and their message boards have become. It's unrelenting negativity. The irony of course, while being on opposite sides of the political spectrum, they're both as perpetually depressed as each other.

You know what the Guardian and Daily Mail have in common, along with our politicians? They're both creating resentment among nationalities, both trying to peddle a narrative that something, ANYTHING, has gone wrong in whatever country is flavour of turmoil that day. Greece, France, America, Italy, England, Sweden...Unrelenting.

This almost willing the UK economy to fail, for the EU to collapse, for jobs to go, for a terrorist attack, for a migrant crisis...MY GOD I JUST WANT TO BE PROVED RIGHT! so I can sit at my computer screen and say 'I told you so.'

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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri May 05, 2017 8:04 pm

Couldn't help himself...

Guardian wrote:The English language is losing importance in Europe, the president of the European commission has said amid simmering tensions over the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking to an audience of European diplomats and experts in Florence, Jean-Claude Juncker also described the UK’s decision to leave the EU as a tragedy.

“Slowly but surely English is losing importance in Europe,” Juncker said, to applause from his audience. “The French will have elections on Sunday and I would like them to understand what I am saying.” After these opening remarks in English, he switched to French for the rest of the speech.

It is not the first time the English language has been caught in the crossfire of the Brexit negotiations. At a recent EU summit May slapped down reports that Brexit negotiations would be conducted in French, and after the June referendum EU officials made it known they planned to downgrade the use of English in the corridors of Brussels.

In reality, the Brexit talks are most likely to be conducted in French and English with simultaneous interpretation. Barnier, a former French EU commissioner who clashed with the City of London, speaks English but wants the right to negotiate in his native tongue.

English is also highly unlikely to disappear as a dominant language in the EU any time soon. Not only is it an official language for the Irish and Maltese governments, but many diplomats prefer to use English as a common second language rather than French.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ys-juncker

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri May 05, 2017 8:18 pm

KK wrote:Couldn't help himself...

Guardian wrote:The English language is losing importance in Europe, the president of the European commission has said amid simmering tensions over the Brexit negotiations.

Speaking to an audience of European diplomats and experts in Florence, Jean-Claude Juncker also described the UK’s decision to leave the EU as a tragedy.

“Slowly but surely English is losing importance in Europe,” Juncker said, to applause from his audience. “The French will have elections on Sunday and I would like them to understand what I am saying.” After these opening remarks in English, he switched to French for the rest of the speech.

It is not the first time the English language has been caught in the crossfire of the Brexit negotiations. At a recent EU summit May slapped down reports that Brexit negotiations would be conducted in French, and after the June referendum EU officials made it known they planned to downgrade the use of English in the corridors of Brussels.

In reality, the Brexit talks are most likely to be conducted in French and English with simultaneous interpretation. Barnier, a former French EU commissioner who clashed with the City of London, speaks English but wants the right to negotiate in his native tongue.

English is also highly unlikely to disappear as a dominant language in the EU any time soon. Not only is it an official language for the Irish and Maltese governments, but many diplomats prefer to use English as a common second language rather than French.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ys-juncker


It will become less important as we leave as we are a massive country in Europe. French and German are bound to dominate.

The Irish and Maltese will ensure English survives as an EU language. Plus the fact that the EU will want trade and dialogue with America, Canada etc and that China, India, Japan etc are more likely to speak English.

Non-story.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Fri May 05, 2017 10:16 pm

If any language is likely to replace English as the international language used the world over, then it will not be a European language. It's much more likely to be Mandarin.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri May 05, 2017 10:41 pm

Lagamorph wrote:If any language is likely to replace English as the international language used the world over, then it will not be a European language. It's much more likely to be Mandarin.


Why? China has a large population but it's languages are not commonly spoken anywhere else. English, Spanish and French have a large number of native speakers plus a huge number that speak it as a second or third tongue. That's why they'll win out over a language like Mandarin that's not spread over the globe.

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Death's Head
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PostRe: Brexit
by Death's Head » Fri May 05, 2017 11:22 pm

English isn't going anywhere, it is the language of business and law.

Yes?
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri May 05, 2017 11:31 pm

Junker is such a dickhead. I'm hoping the European leader get annoyed with him soon and sort him out. We've got no choice with may, but at least they can do something about him.

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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri May 05, 2017 11:36 pm

Ian Hislop wasn't exactly singing his praises on HIGNFY tonight either.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri May 05, 2017 11:57 pm

The problem is junker doesn't seem to realise that every time he makes these imflamatory statements he is getting more and more British people behind May making negotiations and diplomatic relations even harder. im regularly now hearing people say strawberry float em, let's just leave without any agreement whatsoever.

One thing that annoys me is almost every few days I keep hearing comments from the EU that Britain must guarantee the rights of all European citizens within the uk before any meaningful talks can place. Firstly I haven't heard anything about British people's rights in the rest of the eu, they haven't even made the comments that they are prepared to guarantee British rights if we agree to guarantee the rights of EU citizens in the uk, surely they should be saying that if they want to be seen as the reasonable party and also no talks are even taking place yet. They are not going to happen until after the general election so why do junker and a few others keep making these comments almost everyday. It's just making people angry and turning more British people against the EU. They need to shut up and stop airing these views in public.

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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Sat May 06, 2017 1:08 am

Moggy wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:If any language is likely to replace English as the international language used the world over, then it will not be a European language. It's much more likely to be Mandarin.


Why? China has a large population but it's languages are not commonly spoken anywhere else. English, Spanish and French have a large number of native speakers plus a huge number that speak it as a second or third tongue. That's why they'll win out over a language like Mandarin that's not spread over the globe.


Spanish actually has more native speakers than English. Also it's very similar to Italian and Portuguese which extends in reach. I doubt it'll overtake English unless the US economy collapses though.

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Death's Head
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PostRe: Brexit
by Death's Head » Sat May 06, 2017 9:49 am

Even if the US economy collapsed it would be hundreds of years before the use of English worldwide changed. Just agreeing which language would replace it would be difficult, getting the world's multi language speaking population to accept and learn a separate language would be complex and translating the number of legal documents out there would be a nightmare no one wants. When people start thinking about the effort required they will question why it is being considered and then stick with English. English is going nowhere.

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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Sat May 06, 2017 10:36 am

Given that about half of all Europeans, even excluding the UK and Ireland, can at least get by in English I think any talk of it ceasing to be relevant in the EU is overblown. That is before you even consider its dominance outside the EU as well. Anyone seriously considering a career in international diplomacy would be limiting their prospects considerably by failing to acquire at least passable English.

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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Sat May 06, 2017 10:55 am

Apperently Junker was joking about English losing its importance. If you read the whole speech there are a number of gags. He describes Brussels as a valley of tears and said of Luxembourg "771 soldiers, including the Minister of Defense; Therefore, I have never had the opportunity to become a true warlord"

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Sat May 06, 2017 10:59 am

lex-man wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:If any language is likely to replace English as the international language used the world over, then it will not be a European language. It's much more likely to be Mandarin.


Why? China has a large population but it's languages are not commonly spoken anywhere else. English, Spanish and French have a large number of native speakers plus a huge number that speak it as a second or third tongue. That's why they'll win out over a language like Mandarin that's not spread over the globe.


Spanish actually has more native speakers than English. Also it's very similar to Italian and Portuguese which extends in reach. I doubt it'll overtake English unless the US economy collapses though.

If you factor in second languages I'd imagine English is more widely spoken.
I expect more people in France speak English than speak Italian and more people in Germany speak English than speak Spanish, etc.

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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Sat May 06, 2017 11:00 am

Death's Head wrote:Even if the US economy collapsed it would be hundreds of years before the use of English worldwide changed. Just agreeing which language would replace it would be difficult, getting the world's multi language speaking population to accept and learn a separate language would be complex and translating the number of legal documents out there would be a nightmare no one wants. When people start thinking about the effort required they will question why it is being considered and then stick with English. English is going nowhere.


It wouldn't happen over night but there has already been a large uptick of people learning Chinese in the West. If another country become dominate in the world you would see a shift towards learning that language that would accelerate quicker than you would think. Although it'd still take around 30 years after the US dropped from prominence.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Death's Head » Sat May 06, 2017 11:15 am

lex-man wrote:
Death's Head wrote:It wouldn't happen over night but there has already been a large uptick of people learning Chinese in the West. If another country become dominate in the world you would see a shift towards learning that language that would accelerate quicker than you would think. Although it'd still take around 30 years after the US dropped from prominence.

It wouldn't happen quicker than I think and I stand by a best case of hundreds of years. Just the complexity of having to rewrite legal documents would be enough to put people off. I bet there are very few if any western industry leaders who speak Chinese.

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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Sat May 06, 2017 11:20 am

Death's Head wrote:
lex-man wrote:
Death's Head wrote:It wouldn't happen over night but there has already been a large uptick of people learning Chinese in the West. If another country become dominate in the world you would see a shift towards learning that language that would accelerate quicker than you would think. Although it'd still take around 30 years after the US dropped from prominence.

It wouldn't happen quicker than I think and I stand by a best case of hundreds of years. Just the complexity of having to rewrite legal documents would be enough to put people off. I bet there are very few if any western industry leaders who speak Chinese.


All the EUs legal documents are already published in a number of different languages so they wouldn't have to be rewritten. It's only really English speaking countries where they're not. Also there is already a huge industry of people who translate legal documents into different languages.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat May 06, 2017 11:25 am

lex-man wrote:
Death's Head wrote:
lex-man wrote:
Death's Head wrote:It wouldn't happen over night but there has already been a large uptick of people learning Chinese in the West. If another country become dominate in the world you would see a shift towards learning that language that would accelerate quicker than you would think. Although it'd still take around 30 years after the US dropped from prominence.

It wouldn't happen quicker than I think and I stand by a best case of hundreds of years. Just the complexity of having to rewrite legal documents would be enough to put people off. I bet there are very few if any western industry leaders who speak Chinese.


All the EUs legal documents are already published in a number of different languages so they wouldn't have to be rewritten. It's only really English speaking countries where they're not. Also there is already a huge industry of people who translate legal documents into different languages.


I doubt the EU publish many documents in Mandarin though.


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