Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ve-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:39 pm

Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


To be fair the talk of free trade deals around the world was always a long term thing. I don't think anyone ever suggested that we would just walk into deals straight away. It was all about the belief that if we are not in the EU then we are free to negotiate trade deals around the world. Whether that materialises or not we won't know for many a year.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:40 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


To be fair the talk of free trade deals around the world was always a long term thing. I don't think anyone ever suggested that we would just walk into deals straight away. It was all about the belief that if we are not in the EU then we are free to negotiate trade deals around the world. Whether that materialises or not we won't know for many a year.


...but then we have no trade deals...for many years.

This whole thing is beyond stupid. Its amazing it was ever voted on.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:45 pm

DML wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


To be fair the talk of free trade deals around the world was always a long term thing. I don't think anyone ever suggested that we would just walk into deals straight away. It was all about the belief that if we are not in the EU then we are free to negotiate trade deals around the world. Whether that materialises or not we won't know for many a year.


...but then we have no trade deals...for many years.

This whole thing is beyond stupid. Its amazing it was ever voted on.


Yep, definitely going to be some time without any deals. I do think we could see a temporary extension of our EU partnership after these two years, this has been mentioned as a possibility if negotiations aren't complete. That or after the two years it will be a hard brexit with the EU still asking for 50-60 billion euros and us refusing to pay so no trade negotiations will have even taken place.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:56 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


To be fair the talk of free trade deals around the world was always a long term thing. I don't think anyone ever suggested that we would just walk into deals straight away. It was all about the belief that if we are not in the EU then we are free to negotiate trade deals around the world. Whether that materialises or not we won't know for many a year.


Nope, loads of people were saying that it'd really easy to sort out. Tory MP Rees Mog and UKIP seemed to think we could knock them out at a rate of knots.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:01 pm

lex-man wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


To be fair the talk of free trade deals around the world was always a long term thing. I don't think anyone ever suggested that we would just walk into deals straight away. It was all about the belief that if we are not in the EU then we are free to negotiate trade deals around the world. Whether that materialises or not we won't know for many a year.


Nope, loads of people were saying that it'd really easy to sort out. Tory MP Rees Mog and UKIP seemed to think we could knock them out at a rate of knots.


Oh come on, no believed what they were saying. Ok a few million, maybe into double digits.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:21 pm

Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


He said that it had taken six years for his home country, Guyana, and other Caribbean states to negotiate a trade pact with the EU and that it would be “very disruptive” to push for a deal with the UK within two years of a formal Brexit.

But the mood has been soured by reported comments from Whitehall officials about an “Empire 2.0” trade strategy. “This is in our view reactionary, trying to recreate what we’ve gone beyond,” Gomes said.

Reactionary, trying to recreate what we've gone beyond - yup, that's Brexit.

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Squinty
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Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:28 pm

Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


Bullies!!!!!!!!!

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Benzin
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PostRe: Brexit
by Benzin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:39 pm

Sure all those former colonies are desperate for the stable hand of May and Co. with Boris at the helm of our magnificent trading yacht and "Jerusalem" blaring out...

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:43 pm

Instead of free trade with Europe, we should be looking at the Commonwealth...

Hexx wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/apr/28/tories-imperial-vision-post-brexit-trade-deal-disruptive-deluded

ACP basically called Britain deluded fools.

Still I'm sure it's just bluster and they'll rush to give us a deal really


...oh gooseberry fool.

:slol:

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Meep
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Location: Belfast

PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:40 pm

I think if Northern Ireland ever reunited there would need to be a continuation of the devolution. An Irish Federation with quasi independent North would a lot more palatable to people, at least in the interim, probably with the PSNI in place instead of the guard. However, loyalist insurgents would still be a major terror threat.

2050 or later, probably. I might die before it happens.

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Memento Mori
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PostRe: Brexit
by Memento Mori » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:46 pm

Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:Lol, they all sound so bitter even though they're getting exactly what they voted for. They're a bunch of idiots for thinking the EU would just roll over and give us everything we want. The EU is in a much stronger negotiating position the UK, suck it up you ignorant fools and accept the reality of the situation you've created.

According to a guy on that LBC James O'Brien show the UK has no skilled negotiators either, the EU have quite a few that recently helped hash out the Canadian deal.

Yes this is true, Private Eye has been reporting on it for a while. In their desperation the government tried to hire the arbitration service ACAS as trade negotiators. They were turned down.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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Location: Northampton

PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:59 pm

Memento Mori wrote:
Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:Lol, they all sound so bitter even though they're getting exactly what they voted for. They're a bunch of idiots for thinking the EU would just roll over and give us everything we want. The EU is in a much stronger negotiating position the UK, suck it up you ignorant fools and accept the reality of the situation you've created.

According to a guy on that LBC James O'Brien show the UK has no skilled negotiators either, the EU have quite a few that recently helped hash out the Canadian deal.

Yes this is true, Private Eye has been reporting on it for a while. In their desperation the government tried to hire the arbitration service ACAS as trade negotiators. They were turned down.


Did we not supply any for the Canadian negotiations? I'm sure I read that we do, just no where near enough

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Meep
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Location: Belfast

PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:25 pm

From what I hear most of the team they have is quite young and inexperienced as these are the people eager for any chance to advance. Established experts have the luxury of turning down the offer to participate in something they see as a risky career move (possible public enquiries launched by future governments if the the whole thing goes tits up).

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:29 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Memento Mori wrote:
Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:Lol, they all sound so bitter even though they're getting exactly what they voted for. They're a bunch of idiots for thinking the EU would just roll over and give us everything we want. The EU is in a much stronger negotiating position the UK, suck it up you ignorant fools and accept the reality of the situation you've created.

According to a guy on that LBC James O'Brien show the UK has no skilled negotiators either, the EU have quite a few that recently helped hash out the Canadian deal.

Yes this is true, Private Eye has been reporting on it for a while. In their desperation the government tried to hire the arbitration service ACAS as trade negotiators. They were turned down.


Did we not supply any for the Canadian negotiations? I'm sure I read that we do, just no where near enough


All trade negotiators that we had in the EU are employed directly by the EU. So are still employed by the EU even if they are English.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:21 pm

Excellent comment!


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Meep
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Location: Belfast

PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:12 am

I would have once agreed but it has become clear to me that failures of the Tories are not necessarily punished. They have a level of control over the media narrative now that I can't remember any government ever having before in my life time. For example, the way the malaise we are currently is now unquestioningly referred to as a "strong economy", the way 'big society' Cameron has now been displaced to the point where relentless attacks on the lives of the disabled are now acceptable, to the point were de-funding children's education has become accepted as necessary when before the political consensus was always that children were our future, to the point where no one apparently cares that the NHS is in crisis. Any one of these things would be doing huge reputation damage to a Labour government yet somehow the Conservatives can survive all of them at once and be on course for a landslide.

If they have gotten away with all of the above I fail to see how failing on Brexit could do much damage. It will be reflected, ignored and pasted over by them and every willing conspirator. America is not the inventor of "alternative facts"; we are positively swimming in them. Reality seems to hold no consequence for Conservative electability. I hope I am wrong and that Brexit will be the straw that breaks the camel's back but I cannot honestly bet on it.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:20 am

The Tories will avoid the blame because they will just shift it towards the EU and "Remoaners". And the press will lap it up and regurgitate it back to the electorate.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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Location: Northampton

PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:31 am

Meep wrote:I would have once agreed but it has become clear to me that failures of the Tories are not necessarily punished. They have a level of control over the media narrative now that I can't remember any government ever having before in my life time. For example, the way the malaise we are currently is now unquestioningly referred to as a "strong economy", the way 'big society' Cameron has now been displaced to the point where relentless attacks on the lives of the disabled are now acceptable, to the point were de-funding children's education has become accepted as necessary when before the political consensus was always that children were our future, to the point where no one apparently cares that the NHS is in crisis. Any one of these things would be doing huge reputation damage to a Labour government yet somehow the Conservatives can survive all of them at once and be on course for a landslide.

If they have gotten away with all of the above I fail to see how failing on Brexit could do much damage. It will be reflected, ignored and pasted over by them and every willing conspirator. America is not the inventor of "alternative facts"; we are positively swimming in them. Reality seems to hold no consequence for Conservative electability. I hope I am wrong and that Brexit will be the straw that breaks the camel's back but I cannot honestly bet on it.


This is spot on it all seemed to start around 2007, as the world financial crisis began to hit into 2008 somehow the tories and media like the daily mail managed to pin all the problems on labour, the poor, the disabled, the sick and the immigrants.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:43 am

That was a very interesting Twitter post.

The last paragraph strangely reminds me the changing narrative over the Iraq war. The public seemed to be overwhelming supportive back then for military action. Now, that sentiment is reversed as all the repercussions have happened and we are still dealing with it.

I don't want to bring the conversation back to discussing that war, but I hope the same sort of parallels won't be drawn ten years down the line, towards Brexit.

Last edited by Squinty on Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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