Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:30 pm

Benzin wrote:Imagine if we went through all this AGAIN and then Remain won... Where would that leave us?


As members of the EU?

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Karl
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PostRe: Brexit
by Karl » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:32 pm

Deja vu! I've just been in this time before!

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:46 pm

Benzin wrote:Though Farage has probably only said this to feel relevant/cos disruption or divide within Labour; did he not learn from May's attempt to 'strengthen the grip' on the country?

Imagine if we went through all this AGAIN and then Remain won... Where would that leave us?

Probably looking at another referendum as Remain would probably only win marginally, due to the amount of colossal strawberry floating idiots in this country.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:55 pm

I think Remain would win...and strangely enough, I believe Farage probably thinks that as well. Which begs the question what his game is.

Taken at face value, I don't see why he'd now change his mind. People that don't matter like Tony Blair can complain all they want. The EU has accepted Brexit is going ahead, the government hasn't said anything to the contrary...so why Farage is now wavering over something so inconsequential makes no sense to me. He's the one who has now brought the doubt and possibility of a second referendum back into the spotlight.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Cuttooth » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:01 pm

Benzin wrote:Though Farage has probably only said this to feel relevant/cos disruption or divide within Labour; did he not learn from May's attempt to 'strengthen the grip' on the country?

Imagine if we went through all this AGAIN and then Remain won... Where would that leave us?

Still horribly divided and scrambling to cancel everything that's happened since March! :lol:

It would put the future of the UK squarely in the hands of the EU ultimately, which is a point that would be hammered home to those who put nonsense about sovereignty as important to their vote.

On the other hand the under 30 turnout should skyrocket for Remain, so strawberry float knows what Farage is trying to gain other than being a headline grabbing banana split.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:02 pm

KK wrote:I think Remain would win...and strangely enough, I believe Farage probably thinks that as well. Which begs the question what his game is.

Taken at face value, I don't see why he'd now change his mind. People that don't matter like Tony Blair can complain all they want. The EU has accepted Brexit is going ahead, the government hasn't said anything to the contrary...so why Farage is now wavering over something so inconsequential makes no sense to me. He's the one who has now brought the doubt and possibility of a second referendum back into the spotlight.

I can only conclude that he'd just do anything to remain relevant and is just a blathering little banana split. No other reason makes sense to me anyway.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:06 pm

KK wrote:I think Remain would win...and strangely enough, I believe Farage probably thinks that as well. Which begs the question what his game is.

Taken at face value, I don't see why he'd now change his mind. People that don't matter like Tony Blair can complain all they want. The EU has accepted Brexit is going ahead, the government hasn't said anything to the contrary...so why Farage is now wavering over something so inconsequential makes no sense to me. He's the one who has now brought the doubt and possibility of a second referendum back into the spotlight.


If remain wins we dont need to risk everything exploding as it will with May at the helm but he gets to moan about it forever because " we should have lef tbut the people have no vision". If we actually leave and it bombs he can't complain about it being a disaster because he got what we wanted, we left.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:07 pm

KK wrote:I think Remain would win...and strangely enough, I believe Farage probably thinks that as well. Which begs the question what his game is.

Taken at face value, I don't see why he'd now change his mind. People that don't matter like Tony Blair can complain all they want. The EU has accepted Brexit is going ahead, the government hasn't said anything to the contrary...so why Farage is now wavering over something so inconsequential makes no sense to me. He's the one who has now brought the doubt and possibility of a second referendum back into the spotlight.

He didn't think leave would win the referendum, and never really wanted them to, and when they did he never thought it would actually get this far.
Now suddenly he faces losing his MEP salary, losing the ability to fiddle hundreds of thousands in expenses and risks being blamed when Brexit goes horribly wrong and isn't the wonderland he promised.

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Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:09 pm

KK wrote:I think Remain would win...and strangely enough, I believe Farage probably thinks that as well. Which begs the question what his game is.

Taken at face value, I don't see why he'd now change his mind. People that don't matter like Tony Blair can complain all they want. The EU has accepted Brexit is going ahead, the government hasn't said anything to the contrary...so why Farage is now wavering over something so inconsequential makes no sense to me. He's the one who has now brought the doubt and possibility of a second referendum back into the spotlight.


Farage loves being in the limelight. He probably does suspect that Remain would win a second referendum, but I think he is confident enough that the government will not call another referendum.

His comment can therefore be made safely as he knows it will grab him some headlines, while also being no risk to his desire for the UK to be out of Europe. It has the added bonus of in a few years time, if things are going badly and the majority wish we never left, he can also point to that Tweet and say “Well I was one of the people saying that there should be a second referendum!”.

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Karl
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PostRe: Brexit
by Karl » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:11 pm

There's some timeline out there in the multiverse where May went "Look! Even Farage thinks we should have one! So I'm announcing it today."

But it wasn't this one.

For strawberry float's sake.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:19 pm

Karl wrote:There's some timeline out there in the multiverse where May went "Look! Even Farage thinks we should have one! So I'm announcing it today."

But it wasn't this one.

For strawberry float's sake.


The bizarre thing is that a second referendum (that Remain won) would solve a huge amount of the problems she has.

I guess though that she is not going to take the risk, especially after her snap election disaster. If she called a second referendum, then she would instantly be flip flopping back to the Remain position, which would be terrible for Remain as she is unpopular (see the number of people that say they voted out “to stick two fingers up at Cameron!!!!”). Lose the referendum and she would be forced out, just like Cameron was. Win the referendum and people would be pointing out that she’s flip flopped between the two camps a little too often, I’d imagine she would take that though if she was sure of winning, but that doubt in her mind will be enough to stop her.

Basically she is forced to carry on this course that she knows will be a total disaster. And we are all along for the ride.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit
by captain red dog » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:28 pm

I'd back another referendum to help settle the issue. I think Leave would still win, and not because I'd vote leave. People have become so entrenched on either side that I don't see much movement at all. All of the people I know who voted Remain are still passionately Remain and all of the people I know that voted Leave are still passionately Leavers.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:34 pm

Lets say the UK did go back to the polls under whatever deal the Tories come up with, what do you put it up against? If it fails does the country still leave with no deal at all and fall onto WTO rules? Do we go back to the EU to try and negotiate? Do we remain under the same rules that apply now? Can we bring back David Cameron's deal if we Remain?

I don't know under what guise you'd run a second referendum. Loads of money again, and I think you'd end up with the exact same outcome but in reverse (Remain would win by a small margin) therefore creating some sort of farcical 1 all draw.

We know the EU would rip up Article 50, but whether they'd be open to putting Cameron's deal back on the table is another matter. I think there is now room to get more out of the EU than Cameron got if we were to Remain, but I don't know how you work your way back to that point.

But then you can't properly negotiate with the EU if they believed the UK was going to run another referendum because then you would obviously give the UK a bad deal or top load Remain.

captain red dog wrote:I'd back another referendum to help settle the issue. I think Leave would still win, and not because I'd vote leave. People have become so entrenched on either side that I don't see much movement at all. All of the people I know who voted Remain are still passionately Remain and all of the people I know that voted Leave are still passionately Leavers.

A lot of people that didn't vote last time probably now would, but I don't know where they'd go.

If the pollsters are to be believed, the country is now united on Brexit (in the sense they want the government to get on with it) but are massively divided on what type of Brexit.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Cuttooth » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:36 pm

captain red dog wrote:I'd back another referendum to help settle the issue. I think Leave would still win, and not because I'd vote leave. People have become so entrenched on either side that I don't see much movement at all. All of the people I know who voted Remain are still passionately Remain and all of the people I know that voted Leave are still passionately Leavers.

This is largely true but non-voters last time I'm fairly certain would overwhelmingly back remain.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:38 pm

Cuttooth wrote:
captain red dog wrote:I'd back another referendum to help settle the issue. I think Leave would still win, and not because I'd vote leave. People have become so entrenched on either side that I don't see much movement at all. All of the people I know who voted Remain are still passionately Remain and all of the people I know that voted Leave are still passionately Leavers.

This is largely true but non-voters last time I'm fairly certain would overwhelmingly back remain.


Plus lots of the older Leavers will have died off and lots of new young voters will be eligible.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:40 pm

I'd change my vote from Remain to Leave



If you Brexiteers really want to do it then let's strawberry floating do it.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:47 pm

KK wrote:Lets say the UK did go back to the polls under whatever deal the Tories come up with, what do you put it up against? If it fails does the country still leave with no deal at all and fall onto WTO rules? Do we go back to the EU to try and negotiate? Do we remain under the same rules that apply now? Can we bring back David Cameron's deal if we Remain?


Any referendum has to be a simple one with only two options, anymore would split the vote too much. The trouble with that is you then have the situation that we have now where a lot of Leavers pretend the result meant something different to what was voted on (“We voted to get rid of immigrants!”).

So what should be the options? I’d say that the most vocal groups are those that want to remain in the EU and those that want a hard Brexit (no divorce bill paid, no further links etc). So make that the options, we either stay as members of the EU or we go for the hard Brexit. That’s perfectly clear to everyone and it means that there is no way the EU can mess around with any potential deals to manipulate the vote.

If that happened though, watch the supporters of a hard Brexit cry foul that that option is putting people off of voting Leave. :slol:

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:50 pm

captain red dog wrote:I'd back another referendum to help settle the issue. I think Leave would still win, and not because I'd vote leave. People have become so entrenched on either side that I don't see much movement at all. All of the people I know who voted Remain are still passionately Remain and all of the people I know that voted Leave are still passionately Leavers.


2 years have passed, and it was a 2% majority. I think its highly likely to swing just through people dying out.

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Lucien
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lucien » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:51 pm

captain red dog wrote:I'd back another referendum to help settle the issue. I think Leave would still win, and not because I'd vote leave. People have become so entrenched on either side that I don't see much movement at all. All of the people I know who voted Remain are still passionately Remain and all of the people I know that voted Leave are still passionately Leavers.


Why?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:55 pm

Lucien wrote:
captain red dog wrote:I'd back another referendum to help settle the issue. I think Leave would still win, and not because I'd vote leave. People have become so entrenched on either side that I don't see much movement at all. All of the people I know who voted Remain are still passionately Remain and all of the people I know that voted Leave are still passionately Leavers.


Why?


Democracy.


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