Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
208
79%
Leave the European Union
54
21%
 
Total votes: 262
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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:22 pm

But isn't the argument from those posters that they could be coming; that doesn't explain why you'd blame the EU for the racial make-up of the UK right now.

If you think there are too many Romanians in the UK and you want them to leave, voting out of the EU makes sense. Voting out of the EU because there are currently too many Indians, does not. The caller on LBC seemed to be complaining about there not being 1 white face in his hospital/supermarket, and while obviously not everyone in the EU is white, proportionately speaking, that would be filed under non-EU immigration policy.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:39 pm

KK wrote:But isn't the argument from those posters that they could be coming; that doesn't explain why you'd blame the EU for the racial make-up of the UK right now.

If you think there are too many Romanians in the UK and you want them to leave, voting out of the EU makes sense. Voting out of the EU because there are currently too many Indians, does not. The caller on LBC seemed to be complaining about there not being 1 white face in his hospital/supermarket, and while obviously not everyone in the EU is white, proportionately speaking, that would be filed under non-EU immigration policy.


Those posters and leaflets from around the time of the referendum added to the sense that Britain was full up, that brown people were arriving in droves and that the EU would just let anybody in. The media for a long time had been spreading the view that being in the EU meant unlimited immigration, thick people had no idea that that meant French, German, Polish and Romanian people and not Indian, Pakistani, Jamaican and South African.

The type of person that would call James O’Brien to moan about too many Pakistanis in the supermarket is not the sort of person that can differentiate between Romania, Turkey, Pakistan and Syria. These are the same people that I remember in the pub after the London tube bombings who wanted to go and “smash up the Paki shop” for revenge. It didn’t matter that the shop was run by (British born) Indian Hindus, “they’re all the same innit!”.

That’s why the Farage poster and the Vote Leave leaflets were so dangerous and why they attracted the racist vote.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:40 pm

Clarification on EU and UK nationals living in different countries:

BBC News wrote:EU and UK citizens will have free movement of rights until the day the UK withdraws from the EU - 29 March 2019.

This, in effect, is the cut-off date for EU citizens moving to the UK. Anyone who arrives before Brexit day will have the right to stay.

Those who are yet to be granted permanent residency in the UK will have their rights protected, so they can still acquire it after withdrawal.

The latest deal also includes reunification rights for relatives who do not live in the UK, to join them in the future.

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Parksey
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PostRe: Brexit
by Parksey » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
KK wrote:But isn't the argument from those posters that they could be coming; that doesn't explain why you'd blame the EU for the racial make-up of the UK right now.

If you think there are too many Romanians in the UK and you want them to leave, voting out of the EU makes sense. Voting out of the EU because there are currently too many Indians, does not. The caller on LBC seemed to be complaining about there not being 1 white face in his hospital/supermarket, and while obviously not everyone in the EU is white, proportionately speaking, that would be filed under non-EU immigration policy.


Those posters and leaflets from around the time of the referendum added to the sense that Britain was full up, that brown people were arriving in droves and that the EU would just let anybody in. The media for a long time had been spreading the view that being in the EU meant unlimited immigration, thick people had no idea that that meant French, German, Polish and Romanian people and not Indian, Pakistani, Jamaican and South African.

The type of person that would call James O’Brien to moan about too many Pakistanis in the supermarket is not the sort of person that can differentiate between Romania, Turkey, Pakistan and Syria. These are the same people that I remember in the pub after the London tube bombings who wanted to go and “smash up the Paki shop” for revenge. It didn’t matter that the shop was run by (British born) Indian Hindus, “they’re all the same innit!”.

That’s why the Farage poster and the Vote Leave leaflets were so dangerous and why they attracted the racist vote.


Such people don't differentiate between different types of foreigner. It's just a case of "us" versus "them". It's a tribal mentality and harks back to seeing a different group of people over the hill, with strange clothes and customs and they have a different word for "dog" and "chair" that isn't "dog" or "chair" and being worried that they are going to violently take over your little village and whisk away your crops, livestock and child-bearers.

You aren't scared of "foreigners" because they come from a specific country or for geopolitical reasons attached to that country, you're scared because they are the "other" and unlike you and your little tribe. And your tribe may not be representative of your community, your town or Britain as a whole, but is largely populated by the people you choose to associate with. So it's effectivrlt representative of nothing.

Now, obviously, the group in question is generally the Muslim population (let's forget for a moment that Muslims aren't a homogenous group from one select portion of the world). In the 70s it would have been people from the Indian sub-continent. In the 50s, possibly people from the West Indies. In the 1880s it would have been Jewish people. There's always an "other".

It just so happens that people like that caller can't quite get their head around things, and so manifest a lot of their problems with "the other". Their son(s) couldn't get a job at a local supermarket, but there were 22 brown people on the tills, ergo it has to be the fault of those people that my son didn't get a job.

Now, there are legitimate arguments to be made for and against what kind of immigration controls a country implements. But that caller didn't seem to care where people came from (some of those brown people probably came from as far away as Finchley which is on the strawberry floating Northern Line for crying out loud) but more that when he looked around, he didn't see people recognisably like him or what he is used to.

Also, as a bit of an aside, I do find it slyly ironic that a lot of the far-right hark back to the glory days of the British Empire, without realising that at its pomp, the Empire was so widespread that it automatically made more "foreigners" British that ever before. Some of the "brown people" the caller complained about, possibly have roots back in the days of Empire. Just in case we forget, India and Pakistan were effectively Britain until 70 years ago, and the Empire was a quarter of the Earth's land and it wasn't just all the nice, fair-headed whities either. I don't really know anything about Imperial Britain's immigration controls but we might also want to consider how far we flung our net back in those days (sometimes quite literally, unfortunately).

Still, the caller can't actually complain why seeing a brown face presumably different from his own is bad, beyond some tenuous personal "evidence" about it stopping his son get a job. The sad thing is, while I am sure a number of Remain voters had legitimate personal concerns, there are more than a few than had this sort of cognitive dissonance and just squashed together all of life's little problems and epitomised them in the brown person bagging their carrots on a Thursday morning (not a euphemism).

Also I've had a drink tonight too, so eat that, Tragic Magic.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:37 pm



I just watched this again. I love how he did the classic racist thing of first saying that immigrants (Romanians and Poles) are lazy and don’t do anything, to then jumping to all the tills in the supermarket being worked on by brown faces.

Make your minds up you racist pricks, are they workshy layabouts or are they stealing all the jobs? :lol:

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:50 pm

I've noticed the make-up of supermarket staff to be kind of interesting. It genuinely differs depending on where you go. Lidl is predominantly Eastern European, ASDA is very chatty women (usually quite loud), Morrisons and Tesco Express is Asian, Marks and Spencer is black women and disproportionately attractive cashiers, and Sainsbury's is filled with oldies.

I refuse to believe it's coincidence.

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Glowy69
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PostRe: Brexit
by Glowy69 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:01 pm

JOB has been gold today, anyone see the angry guy from leeds literally frothing at the mouth?

BREXIT CENTRAL.

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

Drumstick wrote:I'll go on record in stating that Villa won't finish inside the top 6 this season.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:06 pm

Is Angry Guy From Leeds the new Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells?

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Glowy69
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PostRe: Brexit
by Glowy69 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:12 pm

KK wrote:Is Angry Guy From Leeds the new Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells?


I havent heard that one. This guy was literally screaming down the phone at him. We will not go away, this is brexit central. :lol:

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

Drumstick wrote:I'll go on record in stating that Villa won't finish inside the top 6 this season.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:25 pm

KK wrote:I've noticed the make-up of supermarket staff to be kind of interesting. It genuinely differs depending on where you go. Lidl is predominantly Eastern European, ASDA is very chatty women (usually quite loud), Morrisons and Tesco Express is Asian, Marks and Spencer is black women and disproportionately attractive cashiers, and Sainsbury's is filled with oldies.

I refuse to believe it's coincidence.


I can confirm that your experiences with Lidl, Asda and Sainsbury are on par for mine.

Lidl is a particular highlight because the female staff are so good looking. It's insane, I must go and visit Eastern Europe someday.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:47 am



LOL WAHHHHHH

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PostRe: Brexit
by Glowy69 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:34 am

Squinty wrote:

LOL WAHHHHHH


2021, a full 6 years after we voted brexit. :? We voted in 2015 did we Nige you strawberry floating cretin.

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

Drumstick wrote:I'll go on record in stating that Villa won't finish inside the top 6 this season.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:59 pm

Voters can use the next general election to have their say on a final Brexit deal, Michael Gove has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42291191


Unless he is saying we are getting another early election, I think 2022 might be a bit late.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:00 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Photek wrote:Leaving without a deal will be the ultimate in self immolation. I can’t believe that sheer pigheaded ignorance is leading to this.


We will not leave without a deal. It is all posturing.


I think you underestimate just what a bunch of incompetent twats we have in government at the moment.

They have hardly any time left to strike a deal. Do you think they are going to grab one at the last minute or do you think they already have one and are pretending that they don't for the lols?


They will grab a poor deal last minute.


Well that sounds like a 100% set in concrete prediction. :lol:

The signs are all pointing to there being no deal.


:toot:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:51 pm

DML wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Photek wrote:Leaving without a deal will be the ultimate in self immolation. I can’t believe that sheer pigheaded ignorance is leading to this.


We will not leave without a deal. It is all posturing.


I think you underestimate just what a bunch of incompetent twats we have in government at the moment.

They have hardly any time left to strike a deal. Do you think they are going to grab one at the last minute or do you think they already have one and are pretending that they don't for the lols?


They will grab a poor deal last minute.


Well that sounds like a 100% set in concrete prediction. :lol:

The signs are all pointing to there being no deal.


:toot:


Bless.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:30 pm

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Generational divide revealed once again -

Agree with "Britain will be economically better off post Brexit":
65+ = 66%
55-64 = 55%
45-54 = 43%
35-44 = 40%
25-34 = 31%
18-24 = 27%

Disagree with "Britain will be economically better off post Brexit":
65+ = 23%
55-64 = 29%
45-54 = 36%
35-44 = 41%
25-34 = 47%
18-24 = 58%

Agree with "Having greater control over immigration is more important than having access to free trade with the EU":
65+ = 54%
55-64 = 55%
45-54 = 49%
35-44 = 43%
25-34 = 37%
18-24 = 29%

Disagree with "Having greater control over immigration is more important than having access to free trade with the EU":
65+ = 33%
55-64 = 29%
45-54 = 33%
35-44 = 41%
25-34 = 43%
18-24 = 55%

The remainder are "don't know".

There are regional divides too - Northern Ireland is most strongly in disagreement with "Britain will be economically better off post Brexit" with 30% agreeing and 63% disagreeing. Scotland also has more in the disagree camp, with 38% agreeing and 43% disagreeing. All other regions of the UK, including London, have more people agreeing with that statement than disagreeing.

Similar regional picture with "Having greater control over immigration is more important than having access to free trade with the EU". 31% agree, 60% disagree in Northern Ireland. 38% agree, 41% disagree in Scotland. Everywhere else has a higher percentage agreeing with the statement.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:55 pm



:lol:

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit
by captain red dog » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:22 pm

The problem with this deal is that you get none of the benefits of being in the EU and none of the benefits of being outside of the EU. It locks the UK into a long economic decline with no ability or flexibility to change that with new trade deals or state aid to bail out industry etc.

If there was a referendum on this deal or continued membership, remain would win no question. I almost wonder if that is the intention. If May has a cabinet impasse, she could just put the decision into the hands of the public.

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Benzin
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PostRe: Brexit
by Benzin » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:42 pm

And we know that you can't disagree with the WILL OF THE PEOPLE!

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:44 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Photek wrote:Leaving without a deal will be the ultimate in self immolation. I can’t believe that sheer pigheaded ignorance is leading to this.


We will not leave without a deal. It is all posturing.


I think you underestimate just what a bunch of incompetent twats we have in government at the moment.

They have hardly any time left to strike a deal. Do you think they are going to grab one at the last minute or do you think they already have one and are pretending that they don't for the lols?


They will grab a poor deal last minute.


Well that sounds like a 100% set in concrete prediction. :lol:

The signs are all pointing to there being no deal.


:toot:


Bless.


just shows I'm the most clever remoaner.

It's like being the best of the best. :datass:

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