Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:47 pm

captain red dog wrote:The problem with this deal is that you get none of the benefits of being in the EU and none of the benefits of being outside of the EU. It locks the UK into a long economic decline with no ability or flexibility to change that with new trade deals or state aid to bail out industry etc.

If there was a referendum on this deal or continued membership, remain would win no question. I almost wonder if that is the intention. If May has a cabinet impasse, she could just put the decision into the hands of the public.


This was always likely to be the deal. Hence why we all voted against it! You can apologise anytime you like.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:55 pm

Yeah the Brexit deal that’s on the cards now was always how it would be. How can people be surprised?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:00 pm

DML wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Photek wrote:Leaving without a deal will be the ultimate in self immolation. I can’t believe that sheer pigheaded ignorance is leading to this.


We will not leave without a deal. It is all posturing.


I think you underestimate just what a bunch of incompetent twats we have in government at the moment.

They have hardly any time left to strike a deal. Do you think they are going to grab one at the last minute or do you think they already have one and are pretending that they don't for the lols?


They will grab a poor deal last minute.


Well that sounds like a 100% set in concrete prediction. :lol:

The signs are all pointing to there being no deal.


:toot:


Bless.


just shows I'm the most clever remoaner.

It's like being the best of the best. :datass:


Not really. It’s not a deal yet (2 rounds to go) and the agreement that was thrashed out was about as good as it could be and so wasn’t a poor deal.

And all of that doesn’t change the fact that everything did point towards no deal when I posted.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:10 pm

THE SUN SAYS

WELL, that’s one in the EYE for the Brexit DOOM-MONGERS who couldn’t wait for Britain to fail.


For months the Prime Minister has endured endless SNIPING at home.

And her so-called “partners” on the continent (and in Dublin) have leaked poison — patronising, self-important and insulting in equal measure.

The rent-a-quote Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar comparing the dignified Mrs May to a promiscuous divorcee was a low point.

They all said she was making a ‘Phase 1’ deal just about impossible.

Well, doesn’t look so impossible this morning, does it?

The UK’s objectives were to protect citizens’ rights, give businesses some certainty, ensure no hard border on the island of Ireland and thrash out our financial commitments.

As of yesterday, we can put a TICK next to them all.

No, the arrangement isn’t perfect. The size of the proposed divorce bill is tough to swallow, and we want the crazed zealots of the European Court of Justice out of our lives forever.

The compromises on both are just about bearable.

So despite those quibbles, this is a step towards the final deal we want.

In Phase 2, Brussels needs to be regularly reminded of our Prime Minister’s mantra: Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

That means no deal, no cash.

We’re more optimistic than we have ever been that the EU is negotiating in good faith.

Perhaps they have finally realised that we’re serious when we say we’re off.

But we’ve seen Brussels pull all sorts of NONSENSE in the past and we wouldn’t be surprised if, after a Christmas truce, they go back to their old tricks.

So the Prime Minister needs to stand FIRM in the tough talks to come.

She must ensure that we don’t transfer existing rules and regulations in hard and fast law.

“Alignment” on general principles is sensible — taking dictation from Brussels for years to come is not.

That’s not just so our businesses can continue to trade, but because the rise of new industries like artificial intelligence make it crucial that we’re allowed to set our own path.

That work starts next week.

Like her beloved England cricket team, the PM has had to face a consistently hostile attack on a tough wicket.

But unlike the Ashes boys, she’s stood FIRM, played with a Boycott-like straight bat, and come back to the clubhouse safely — with a decent score to boot.

The Sun would offer some advice.

When she comes back after Christmas, Mrs May should BEEF up her team.

Downing Street must be able to lock down the Government’s allies in private, and stop minor disagreements on detail blowing up into public rows.

But for now, we’d say it’s a very good start indeed.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:01 pm

I'm really not seeing how this deal is what Leave voters wanted, seems like the only person not spinning it into a Leave victory is Farage.

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Squinty
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Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:32 pm

What are they smoking :lol: :lol: :lol:

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DML
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:39 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
DML wrote:
Moggy wrote:
DML wrote:
Photek wrote:Leaving without a deal will be the ultimate in self immolation. I can’t believe that sheer pigheaded ignorance is leading to this.


We will not leave without a deal. It is all posturing.


I think you underestimate just what a bunch of incompetent twats we have in government at the moment.

They have hardly any time left to strike a deal. Do you think they are going to grab one at the last minute or do you think they already have one and are pretending that they don't for the lols?


They will grab a poor deal last minute.


Well that sounds like a 100% set in concrete prediction. :lol:

The signs are all pointing to there being no deal.


:toot:


Bless.


just shows I'm the most clever remoaner.

It's like being the best of the best. :datass:


Not really. It’s not a deal yet (2 rounds to go) and the agreement that was thrashed out was about as good as it could be and so wasn’t a poor deal.

And all of that doesn’t change the fact that everything did point towards no deal when I posted.


I don't think everything was pointing that way at all. After all even idiots have to eventually be sensible. You can't live in Wonderland forever.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:43 pm

I’m guessing The Sun and Daily Mail (who were overjoyed today, with the obligatory jibes at the BBC/Guardian/Corbyn/“Japanese owned” FT and Osborne run ES) don’t wish to rock the boat. Farage’s comments were only mentioned in the DM today in a very small box out, lumped in with Corbyn. They don’t want to destabilise May or the government, or presumably risk voters running off to UKIP, which would allow Labour in were there to be another election.

Practically everyone today is running with this as a huge success, which just goes to show how you can spin this however you wish. Leave papers are happy, Remain papers like the Standard are happy.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:45 pm

KK wrote:I’m guessing The Sun and Daily Mail (who were overjoyed today, with the obligatory jibes at the BBC/Guardian/Corbyn/“Japanese owned” FT and Osborne run ES) don’t wish to rock the boat. Farage’s comments were only mentioned in the DM today in a very small box out, lumped in with Corbyn. They don’t want to destabilise May or the government, or presumably risk voters running off to UKIP, which would allow Labour in were there to be another election.

Practically everyone today is running with this as a huge success, which just goes to show how you can spin this however you wish. Leave papers are happy, Remain papers like the Standard are happy.


Judging from life online though, the Leavers aren't buying it. Gonna be an interesting few weeks, but when isn't it?

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Brexit
by Peter Crisp » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:56 pm

I always felt it would go this way.
We'd flail about for a while and look like idiots and then at the last minute get the job done and come out of it with an ok (not great or terrible but ok) result that everyone can moan about.

I voted to stay in but I have a feeling the end result will be kind of fine in a milk is kind of fine as a drink kind of way.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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Meep
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Joined in 2010
Location: Belfast

PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:53 pm

Looking increasingly like the UK will end up tethered to the EU without any vote or veto in the EU.

I don't know why they don't just formerly stay inside the customs union because that seems to be the de facto agreement. What we have now is flimsy language designed to hide the fact that the Brexiteers have been forced to fold like a cheap pack of cards and save them some face. They don't deserve to save face.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:57 pm

And they can't even really claim this provides any real certainty for businesses when Gove keeps harping on about how a future government doesn't have to stick to the deal.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:11 pm

The Mail were selling by it as a win for May because the EU wanted 100 billion and its ended up as 35-40. The ES meanwhile were patting themselves on the back because they were apparently the one that broke the story on it being 40ish many months ago.

The Mail also set their sights on Sadiq Khan today, with a double page hit job (London is crumbling under his watch, he's celebrity obsessed, he's off gallivanting in India, if he becomes Labour leader then they'll be out of power for another ten years).

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captain red dog
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Location: Bristol, UK

PostRe: Brexit
by captain red dog » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:34 pm

DML wrote:
captain red dog wrote:The problem with this deal is that you get none of the benefits of being in the EU and none of the benefits of being outside of the EU. It locks the UK into a long economic decline with no ability or flexibility to change that with new trade deals or state aid to bail out industry etc.

If there was a referendum on this deal or continued membership, remain would win no question. I almost wonder if that is the intention. If May has a cabinet impasse, she could just put the decision into the hands of the public.


This was always likely to be the deal. Hence why we all voted against it! You can apologise anytime you like.

If the Tories had won a majority (not that I wanted that), do you still think this would have been the deal?

I also think if Labour were in government the deal would be different.

So no, I won't apologise for a bad deal agreed by a poor and weak government. But thanks for bringing the thread back to the petty bickering.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:46 pm

The deal was always going to be gooseberry fool, but had their been a government that did any sort of planning and preparation it probably wouldn't have taken as long or been quite so bad.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:53 pm

captain red dog wrote:If the Tories had won a majority (not that I wanted that), do you still think this would have been the deal?


Pretty much. I guess Northern Ireland/the Good Friday Agreement may have been screwed with a Tory majority, but otherwise it’d be much the same.

The EU don’t give a gooseberry fool how strong a grip on Parliament the UK government has. It’s pretty irrelevant to them, they hold all the cards and will do nothing that doesn’t help their member states. That’s why it’s good to be part of a powerful club, rather than being on your own.

I also think if Labour were in government the deal would be different.


Maybe, but it’s impossible to say what it would be under Labour. Corbyn doesn’t seem to have a clue what he wants.

Edit: Also when you voted Leave, you knew it would be a Tory government that would take us through Brexit. Cameron had another 4 years to go and nobody really believed then that there would be an early election. What a Labour government might or might not have done is irrelevant.

So no, I won't apologise for a bad deal agreed by a poor and weak government. But thanks for bringing the thread back to the petty bickering.


You shouldn’t have to apologise, but you should take responsibility for your vote. The present situation is as a direct result of the Leave vote. Leavers can keep blaming the EU, Remainers and the Tories, but it’d be nice if you actually took responsibility rather than passing the buck to others.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:39 pm


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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:43 pm

We've got the EU over a barrel? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Return_of_the_STAR
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Location: Northampton

PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:54 pm

I’m struggling to understand why the express would be happy with this deal. The express are even more hard Brexit than the mail. How on Earth they would believe that we now have the EU over a barrel is beyond me.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:00 pm

captain red dog wrote:
DML wrote:
captain red dog wrote:The problem with this deal is that you get none of the benefits of being in the EU and none of the benefits of being outside of the EU. It locks the UK into a long economic decline with no ability or flexibility to change that with new trade deals or state aid to bail out industry etc.

If there was a referendum on this deal or continued membership, remain would win no question. I almost wonder if that is the intention. If May has a cabinet impasse, she could just put the decision into the hands of the public.


This was always likely to be the deal. Hence why we all voted against it! You can apologise anytime you like.

If the Tories had won a majority (not that I wanted that), do you still think this would have been the deal?

I also think if Labour were in government the deal would be different.

So no, I won't apologise for a bad deal agreed by a poor and weak government. But thanks for bringing the thread back to the petty bickering.


Petty bickering?

We are all poorer for your vote. You are lucky I don't swear at you.

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