Blue Eyes wrote:The decision is wrong, though. It is wrong because of those "negative consequences". Imagine if he said "yeah, you'll be alright without us I'm sure, but the door is always open for you to change your minds". That would have been condescending.
I thought you'd say that. You're too caught up in your subjective opinion of Brexit to see the more objective reality of Tusk's comment. If you remove your bias and think it's not disrespectful however that's fine.
Come off it. I suspect it's far more to do with your Brexit bias that you're somehow finding this tweet patronising.
I'd have found it patronising if any nation did it to another, and my opinion of the decision being right or wrong wouldn't matter. If Theresa May stood up and talked down a nation joining the EU (for example) I'd find it similarly disrespectful.
If thats your rule surely all politics is 'patronising', because all politics is about pushing a world view, whether you are a member of UKIP, the EU or the Labour party? Its so simplistic to call it patronising or disrespectful, because everyone pushes their own political agenda. To pretend the EU is pushing theirs and no-one else is can not be seen as anything BUT bias. I am not blind to Tusk pushing an agenda he wants to happen (because everyone does), but I have to put up with a Brexiteer agenda every waking day that I believe would have been better placed in a bin 18 months ago, so why shouldn't you be subjected to opposing views? I actively encourage the debate.
To start using words like traitorous, undermining etc....is just boiling politics down to a set of simplistic values, when politics is all about making hard calls every day. He can say anything he strawberry floating wants, as can May, Johnson, Gove.
Karl wrote:Yeah, this is my bad. Usually when I use a hyperbolic example I get a chuckle and maybe people have a little think about why their position is so readily compared to absurd scenarios. But you've defeated me and I crown you King of Deliberately Misunderstanding Arguments on the Internet.
No need to be mildly aggressive. I got that you were using hyperbole. However your absurd scenarios share a trait with your view on Brexit, that being you should not get a vote on (the topic). I said they were nothing alike hoping you'd think about how worlds apart they are.
Karl wrote:1. No, Brexit isn't the same as a nuclear war. My point was that both of these things are or would be considered ridiculous by experts who understand them - as they are both pointless acts of petty nationalism that damage both us and our neighbours - and so neither should be put to plebiscite (to allow people who don't understand them to vote on them) in the first place.
I don't know what you mean. Brexit was about deciding how you want to be governed: a political expert can't tell you that.
Karl wrote:2. No, the UK isn't the same as North Korea. World leaders commenting on the actions of other world leaders and on other prominent geopolitical issues is a part of global politics. All the more so if those issues directly affect the people they represent or lead. This is why it's OK for the EU to continue to officially comment that they feel the UK is making a bad decision. It's also why it's OK for various world leaders to tell North Korea to do one.
Leaders can comment on things and I can find them disrespectful or otherwise, as can anyone.
If theres anything I dont understand about politics its why Farage is able to sit at that table. He even goes on about unelected types, and he himself has NEVER been elected! Why is he able to spew his bile in the most important meetings in Europe?