Brexit

I hate to keep sounding like an arrogant, snobby, elitist prick, but social media has empowered a subset of society that was previously unable to collectively create large and/or loud enough groups through which they could absorb and pass on opinions based on nothing but existing prejudice and bullshit, confirmation bias-fuelled 'evidence'.

People believe what they want to believe. If that wasn't the case, things like religion would be long dead. This is a huge problem because so many people are consumed with underlying hatred as a result of longstanding insecurity created in them by a myriad of issues, many of which are caused by the same systems they help to perpetuate with their own actions.

All my own opinion, of course. Tl;dr = strawberry float democracy.

Squinty wrote:That was a very interesting Twitter post.

The last paragraph strangely reminds me the changing narrative over the Iraq war. The public seemed to be overwhelming supportive back then for military action. Now, that sentiment is reversed as all the repercussions have happened and we are still dealing with it.

I don't want to bring the conversation back to discussing that war, but I hope the same sort of parallels won't be drawn ten years down the line, towards Brexit.

Really? From what I remember there was never overwhelming support for the Iraq war, it was massively controversial even before it started.

Moggy wrote:

Squinty wrote:That was a very interesting Twitter post.

The last paragraph strangely reminds me the changing narrative over the Iraq war. The public seemed to be overwhelming supportive back then for military action. Now, that sentiment is reversed as all the repercussions have happened and we are still dealing with it.

I don't want to bring the conversation back to discussing that war, but I hope the same sort of parallels won't be drawn ten years down the line, towards Brexit.

Really? From what I remember there was never overwhelming support for the Iraq war, it was massively controversial even before it started.

Hmm, maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly then. I was in college at that point. Might be more a personal thing, because I remember my family being supportive of it.

Squinty wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Squinty wrote:That was a very interesting Twitter post.

The last paragraph strangely reminds me the changing narrative over the Iraq war. The public seemed to be overwhelming supportive back then for military action. Now, that sentiment is reversed as all the repercussions have happened and we are still dealing with it.

I don't want to bring the conversation back to discussing that war, but I hope the same sort of parallels won't be drawn ten years down the line, towards Brexit.

Really? From what I remember there was never overwhelming support for the Iraq war, it was massively controversial even before it started.

Hmm, maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly then. I was in college at that point. Might be more a personal thing, because I remember my family being supportive of it.

Around a million people marched against it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm

Squinty wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Squinty wrote:That was a very interesting Twitter post.

The last paragraph strangely reminds me the changing narrative over the Iraq war. The public seemed to be overwhelming supportive back then for military action. Now, that sentiment is reversed as all the repercussions have happened and we are still dealing with it.

I don't want to bring the conversation back to discussing that war, but I hope the same sort of parallels won't be drawn ten years down the line, towards Brexit.

Really? From what I remember there was never overwhelming support for the Iraq war, it was massively controversial even before it started.

Hmm, maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly then. I was in college at that point. Might be more a personal thing, because I remember my family being supportive of it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest ... e_Iraq_War

Have the remaining eu states actually told us yet how much they want us the pay and why yet? Seems like a lot of bluster from both sides at present yet no negotiations have even taken place.

It took the EU leaders one minute to agree their negotiation position.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39755124

Moggy wrote:It took the EU leaders one minute to agree their negotiation position.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39755124

What a mess. So our teasach (PM) will ask EU to have Northern Ireland in the EU. I mean if that happens Scotland will want in too.

Photek wrote:

Moggy wrote:It took the EU leaders one minute to agree their negotiation position.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39755124

What a mess. So our teasach (PM) will ask EU to have Northern Ireland in the EU. I mean if that happens Scotland will want in too.

I'm cool with that as long as you can fit Bristol in as well.

Meep wrote:I think if Northern Ireland ever reunited there would need to be a continuation of the devolution. An Irish Federation with quasi independent North would a lot more palatable to people, at least in the interim, probably with the PSNI in place instead of the guard. However, loyalist insurgents would still be a major terror threat.

2050 or later, probably. I might die before it happens.

If it was going to happen anytime soon then I'd agree. However the possibility is still decades away and if it ever did come to pass then it would ultimately come down to money and people both sides of the border deciding they'd be better off financially in a United Ireland. In that scenario the governments priority would be on reducing the cost of running the country by, putting it bluntly, having a management cull across all the department's of government which would end up with power consolidating in Dublin and possibly a few ministries being based in Belfast. There'd be an executive at Stormont between a Unity Referendum passing and the eventual transfer of power from London to Dublin but I doubt it'd exist after that.

The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

Death's Head wrote:

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

So we're strawberry floated then.

Death's Head wrote:

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

They're not. The only good negotiators from the UK actually are employed by the EU.

Moggy wrote:

Photek wrote:

Moggy wrote:It took the EU leaders one minute to agree their negotiation position.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39755124

What a mess. So our teasach (PM) will ask EU to have Northern Ireland in the EU. I mean if that happens Scotland will want in too.

I'm cool with that as long as you can fit Bristol in as well.

Don't forget London and Hertfordshire!

Qikz wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

They're not. The only good negotiators from the UK actually are employed by the EU.

Even a bad negotiator can make the EU soften their approach. We have quite a few things we can threaten over, we just need to make sure that we use these things sensibly.

Death's Head wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

They're not. The only good negotiators from the UK actually are employed by the EU.

Even a bad negotiator can make the EU soften their approach. We have quite a few things we can threaten over, we just need to make sure that we use these things sensibly.

Such as?

Errkal wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

They're not. The only good negotiators from the UK actually are employed by the EU.

Even a bad negotiator can make the EU soften their approach. We have quite a few things we can threaten over, we just need to make sure that we use these things sensibly.

Such as?

Pushing non UK residents out of the UK, taxing the crap out of imports. Things that are good for no one, but it is pointless us making a deal that is only bad for the UK.

Death's Head wrote:

Errkal wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

They're not. The only good negotiators from the UK actually are employed by the EU.

Even a bad negotiator can make the EU soften their approach. We have quite a few things we can threaten over, we just need to make sure that we use these things sensibly.

Such as?

Pushing non UK residents out of the UK, taxing the crap out of imports. Things that are good for no one, but it is pointless us making a deal that is only bad for the UK.

So we should be horrible people and threaten to ruin the lives of thousands, and threaten to heap tax that would just ruin us. Cracking moves both.

Errkal wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Errkal wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Hexx wrote:The terms are sobering reading.

Particularly how it seems to insulate the negotiating team from lobbying

Those 'German car makers' are not getting their way now.

Any free trade agreement should be balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging. It cannot, however, amount to participation in the Single Market or parts thereof, as this would undermine its integrity and proper functioning. It must ensure a level playing field, notably in terms of competition and state aid, and in this regard encompass safeguards against unfair competitive advantages through, inter alia, tax, social, environmental and regulatory measures and practices.

This is what a united and strong negotiation position looks like.

We are so strawberry floated. We might as well just hard exit tomorrow

There is always a deal to be done. Just depends how smart the negotiators on the UK side are.

They're not. The only good negotiators from the UK actually are employed by the EU.

Even a bad negotiator can make the EU soften their approach. We have quite a few things we can threaten over, we just need to make sure that we use these things sensibly.

Such as?

Pushing non UK residents out of the UK, taxing the crap out of imports. Things that are good for no one, but it is pointless us making a deal that is only bad for the UK.

So we should be horrible people and threaten to ruin the lives of thousands, and threaten to heap tax that would just ruin us. Cracking moves both.

Exactly, they would just do the same back to us and it'd hurt us a lot more.

The EU hold all the cards, our best bet would be to play a bit nicer and keep it a friendly game rather than trying to act all tough when everyone can see what we are holding.