Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:45 pm

Knoyleo wrote:
Moggy wrote:
jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:Which way did you vote in the referendum Jawa?

I'm comfortable to have a chat about politics, Moggy, but I never reveal who I have voted for in any electoral vote or referendum. I will say that I'm not one for sticking with a particular party, though - I make my decision afresh each time.


This isn't about a political party though.

It's hard to have a conversation like this with somebody who is just sitting on the middle of the fence and refusing to lean either way.

Like it or not, this is a massively polarising issue - it's not something you can debate while saying "I can see both sides!".

It's polarising at a national level, but surely you can imagine there were people who were genuinely torn over how to vote?


Of course.

At the very least though in a debate I'd expect them to share what way they voted.

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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:53 pm

.

Last edited by jawafour on Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Glowy69
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PostRe: Brexit
by Glowy69 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:59 pm

Jawa is such a brexiteer.

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

Drumstick wrote:I'll go on record in stating that Villa won't finish inside the top 6 this season.

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: Brexit
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:15 pm

Moggy wrote:
jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...It's hard to have a conversation like this with somebody who is just sitting on the middle of the fence and refusing to lean either way...

I'd have to disagree on that point, Moggy. I wonder if - and this is only a feeling from reading through the thread - some folk may be seeking to "prove" that people who voted the opposite to them were "wrong"? For me, I was pretty comfortable with either outcome in the referendum; there were aspects that I liked and disliked for both options.

I feel that I can join in the discussion in terms of sharing my views on these things without having to be a fervent supporter of either option. The points that I have gotten involved with so far - such as UK gaining the ability to be fully responsible for the laws of its countries, and for beng able to determine its own trade deals with countries world-wide - I am in favour of.


You can disagree of course, but how can you debate somebody who doesn't seem to care either way and who will not say what side they came down on at the actual vote?

"Hey Jawa, what do you think of EU citizens rights?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the economy?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the risk to trade?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"


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Jawa is the Father Stone of Brexit.

Last edited by Alvin Flummux on Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:16 pm

Jawa is actually David Davis

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rocsteady » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:18 pm

Errkal wrote:Jawa is actually David Davis

He's mellowed out a lot then.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:18 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:You can disagree of course, but how can you debate somebody who doesn't seem to care either way and who will not say what side they came down on at the actual vote?

"Hey Jawa, what do you think of EU citizens rights?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the economy?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the risk to trade?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

I don't feel that is the case, Moggy - I certainly do care about the issues and, in the past few posts, I've spoken of a few areas that I support. It's not the case that people should like all of the things that the "In" party proposed, nor like all of the things that the "Out" party championed. Although the referendum was a binary decision, it doesn't mean that discussions on the multitude of factors have to be. Just because someone voted a certain way doesn't mean that their views on all the aspects are "right" or "wrong".


I was overly harsh saying you don't care either way. But you are coming at this from the middle ground and there isn't much middle ground here.

Either Brexit will be wonderful, a disaster or we will barely notice any difference. Very very few people would think there'd be barely any difference and so it really is a binary decision.

It's one that is steeped in emotion on both sides as well. Leavers see it as defending their country, rule Britannia and a glorious return of Britain as a world power. Remainers see it as a retreat away from the modern world, an economic disaster and a xenophobic strawberry float you to our European friends.

I look at my own young son and wonder just what sort of a world he's going to grow up in. With racism on the rise, trade tariffs coming and a lack of opportunity to easily experience other countries culture. With that in mind, maybe you can see why I am so passionate on this issue.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:56 pm

Jawa has a history of picking a notoriously shittty game in Sonic Boom and backing it to the hilt despite sensible and consistent criticism.

I'm not saying he voted Leave but...

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit
by Errkal » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:00 pm

:lol:

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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:55 pm

.

Last edited by jawafour on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:07 pm

I just don't understand how its ever possible to end up on a stronger footing though. Who you going to deal with? Mars? We don't live in isolation and the alternatives are a volatile and untrustworthy USA and China. Surely it's completely unrealistic or and best wishful thinking to expect a stronger economy?

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:11 pm


Last edited by Photek on Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grcades resident banana split.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:13 pm

Jawa, I think we view this from a light year away from each other. I like your optimism but I just don't share it.

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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:23 pm

.

Last edited by jawafour on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:30 pm

Jawa seems too nice to be a Brexit voter. I'm starting to think he didn't vote at all, which is even worse!

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:50 pm

Currency news...

CNBC wrote:The dollar dropped 0.77 percent against the euro on Wednesday, hitting its lowest level against the common currency in more than 2 1/2 years.

The euro traded at $1.1852 against the greenback as of 4:10 p.m. in New York. The euro also broke above $1.19 for the first time since Jan. 6, 2015.

"I think this is a combination of negative news out of the U.S. and more positive news out of Europe," said Marc Chandler, global head of currency strategy at Brown Brothers Harriman. "There are lower expectations for tighter monetary policy out of the Federal Reserve and higher expectations for more tightening out of the European Central Bank."

Meanwhile, the Pound to Dollar exchange rate has risen by over 8% in the past 100 days; something that won’t be welcomed by the UK’s exporters but it will certainly be welcomed by the nation’s importers who easily outweigh their exporting counterparts.

The Pound is now at a 10 month high against the Dollar to £1.32 and could be on course to match £1.34, the highest since August 2016.

Woo.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:04 am

jawafour wrote:
DML wrote:...Who you going to deal with? Mars? We don't live in isolation and the alternatives are a volatile and untrustworthy USA and China. Surely it's completely unrealistic or and best wishful thinking to expect a stronger economy?

I hope we can reach a trade agreement with the Euro countries, DML - I think it would be in the interests of both parties. But... yes, it will be difficult as both the EU and the UK will want to be viewed as having gained a strong deal. If a deal is struck then I suspect the truth will be somewhere in the middle; both parties may need to cede on a few aspects. Beyond the EU, I would feel positive about tading with both bigger partners (USA, China, India, Canada and Australia) as well as places that perhaps wouldn't immediatley spring to mind, such as the South Americas. I have no experience or great knowledge of the complexities of such deals, but it would seem logical that we could approach them and that they'd be keen to strike up trade.

In the short term though, yeah, I can see us having a bumpy ride.


Moggy wrote:Jawa, I think we view this from a light year away from each other. I like your optimism but I just don't share it.

I'm not so sure, Moggy! Sure, there is no doubt that we have differing views on the possible success (or not!) of the change but, in terms of the values you've spoken of, they would appear to tie up with mine pretty much.

Anyway, I rarely (almost never) dip my ties into these threads and, whilst it has been cool to talk over some of the stuff, I will call it a night for now :-).

Sorry but this is what infuriated me with the Leave campaign. Why is there this notion that its easy to get new business, that we can afford to lose 40% of our trade in the hope (expectation) that it can be replaced? SMEs are going to have a hell of a time gaining business in marketplaces that are more expensive to deal with purely on a logistics basis even with a reduction in tariffs. Business travel would be more expensive, shipping goods the same, more time needed for trips/expos etc. Even something as simple as dealing with customers in offset time zones, if you're looking to gain business in the US then your only option is to run parts of your business at US hours and that incurs extra costs through unsociable working. All these things are manageable in large multi-nationals but for your average UK small to medium business?

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:41 am

This seems like a witch-hunt and I'm not sure I like it.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:00 am

Squinty wrote:This seems like a witch-hunt and I'm not sure I like it.


Really?

Come on. We just disagree.

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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:02 am

.

Last edited by jawafour on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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