Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:32 am

Garth wrote:

A tweet that will enrage Brexiteers.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:34 am

Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:

A tweet that will enrage Brexiteers.


I’m sure they will be calm.



Oh. :lol:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:38 am

The EU keep giving us outs and we keep ignoring them :(

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:13 am

I hope Tusk is making this clear to May at every opportunity.

What I don’t understand is all I keep reading is that May is a remainer at heart. If that’s correct then I don’t understand why she hasn’t already just ordered a further referendum. Screw the hardliners in her party. She can easily justify it by realising mountains of evidence to show a) lies that were told about leaving, b) how difficult it is going to be to obtain what the leavers want. Basically say to the people, to leave it will have to be a hard Brexit, this will be the believed consequences of such an action, are you still sure you want to leave?

However when we have a prime minister who allegedly told her health minister that he was moving jobs and he said ‘no’ so she just went ‘ok’. I don’t think this will happen.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:16 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:I hope Tusk is making this clear to May at every opportunity.

What I don’t understand is all I keep reading is that May is a remainer at heart. If that’s correct then I don’t understand why she hasn’t already just ordered a further referendum. Screw the hardliners in her party. She can easily justify it by realising mountains of evidence to show a) lies that were told about leaving, b) how difficult it is going to be to obtain what the leavers want. Basically say to the people, to leave it will have to be a hard Brexit, this will be the believed consequences of such an action, are you still sure you want to leave?

However when we have a prime minister who allegedly told her health minister that he was moving jobs and he said ‘no’ so she just went ‘ok’. I don’t think this will happen.


May was a Remainer but when Cameron quit she saw the way things were going and so jumped into “Brexit mean Brexit” mode.

She probably still believes we are better off in the EU, but there is no real way for her to flip back while keeping power. I guess the only possible way she could do it would be if the polls suddenly showed that a huge percentage had changed their minds/wanted another referendum.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:44 am

I think she thinks she can save the Tory party from electoral oblivion.

She can't.

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:51 pm

All I can think of is that Brexiters are still convinced the EU will back down at the last minute and say "If we let you out of freedom of movement will you stay? WE NEED YOU UK!!!" and that's the only reason they're pushing so far.

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Karl
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PostRe: Brexit
by Karl » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:51 pm

Imagine a world in which the leader of a country would put the future of that country above their own career and party.

Yeah, I can't either. :(

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Squinty
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Location: Norn Oirland

PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:01 pm

Moggy wrote:
Squinty wrote:Soubry and a whole bunch of remainers went to meet Barnier today.


Did they give him a hamper?


I imagine they rolled up with a few ruck sacks and requested political asylum.

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Hyperion
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Location: Beyond the wall

PostRe: Brexit
by Hyperion » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm

May can't call a referendum because she has no position on which to stand in it

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:42 pm

I think the mogster is right. May knows it's a bad idea but she's stuck with it and will try to mitigate it as best she can. Why David Davis shouldn't be withdrawn from talks is on her though, he's an imbecile.

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Lucien
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lucien » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:59 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:What I don’t understand is all I keep reading is that May is a remainer at heart. If that’s correct then I don’t understand why she hasn’t already just ordered a further referendum. Screw the hardliners in her party. She can easily justify it by realising mountains of evidence to show a) lies that were told about leaving, b) how difficult it is going to be to obtain what the leavers want. Basically say to the people, to leave it will have to be a hard Brexit, this will be the believed consequences of such an action, are you still sure you want to leave?

However when we have a prime minister who allegedly told her health minister that he was moving jobs and he said ‘no’ so she just went ‘ok’. I don’t think this will happen.


It's easy - she may be a remainer but the country voted to leave, and they voted for a manifesto, so she's simply doing her job. I mean if you were Prime Minister and the people voted to renationalise the railways, or you said you would in a manifesto, you can't just go against that because you're pro-privatisation.

Lucien
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lucien » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:05 pm

Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:


A tweet that will enrage Brexiteers.


It should annoy more than leave voters. That tweet is a condescending and disrespectful statement against a democratic decision a country made (the decision and country are mostly irrelevant).

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:10 pm

Lucien wrote:
Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:


A tweet that will enrage Brexiteers.


It should annoy more than leave voters. That tweet is a condescending and disrespectful statement against a democratic decision a country made (the decision and country are mostly irrelevant).


It’s not condescending, disrespectful or anti-democratic.

Lucien
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lucien » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:18 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:


A tweet that will enrage Brexiteers.


It should annoy more than leave voters. That tweet is a condescending and disrespectful statement against a democratic decision a country made (the decision and country are mostly irrelevant).


It’s not condescending, disrespectful or anti-democratic.


I think it is condescending and disrespectful. If you don't think it is then fair enough.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:20 pm

Lucien wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:


A tweet that will enrage Brexiteers.


It should annoy more than leave voters. That tweet is a condescending and disrespectful statement against a democratic decision a country made (the decision and country are mostly irrelevant).


It’s not condescending, disrespectful or anti-democratic.


I think it is condescending and disrespectful. If you don't think it is then fair enough.

In what way is it condescending or disrespectful?

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:22 pm

Lucien wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Photek wrote:
Garth wrote:


A tweet that will enrage Brexiteers.


It should annoy more than leave voters. That tweet is a condescending and disrespectful statement against a democratic decision a country made (the decision and country are mostly irrelevant).


It’s not condescending, disrespectful or anti-democratic.


I think it is condescending and disrespectful. If you don't think it is then fair enough.

In what way is it condescending or disrespectful? Because it states that Brexit will have negative consequences? (Which it demonstrably will?)

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Karl
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PostRe: Brexit
by Karl » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:29 pm

I am anti this kind of democracy. We shouldn't have had a vote on Brexit any more than we should have a vote on bringing back hanging or kicking out brown people or nuking France for lols. The typical voter is a wanker and that's why we have a representative parliament rather than a direct democracy.

But even from my perspective, it's not anti-democracy to inform a country that it could change course if it wants to.

It's not anti-democracy to ask a country "Are you really sure?" after a large but not total percentage [Was it 72%?] of a fundamentally misinformed populace [NHS bus!] vote on an issue they don't understand [Bendy bananas!] to achieve goals that won't actually be achieved [Hard border! Control immigration! Send the Polish back!] while powerful people tell them that they will be better off even though they won't [Sick of experts!].

It's not anti-democracy to have a second vote if opinion polls suggest public sentiment is swinging the other way.

Lucien
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lucien » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:52 pm

Blue Eyes wrote:In what way is it condescending or disrespectful?


It's talking down to a subject (a sovereign nation in this case) saying effectively "Your decision is wrong. We're still here with the right way". If he'd not put the "with all its negative consequences" it'd have been passable.

Not all decisions are equal, so there's no need to show an example where it's ok for a nation to criticise another.

Karl wrote:I am anti this kind of democracy. We shouldn't have had a vote on Brexit any more than we should have a vote on bringing back hanging or kicking out brown people or nuking France for lols. The typical voter is a wanker and that's why we have a representative parliament rather than a direct democracy.


Deciding the politcal system your country has is different to nuking France.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:57 pm

Lucien wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:In what way is it condescending or disrespectful?


It's talking down to a subject (a sovereign nation in this case) saying effectively "Your decision is wrong. We're still here with the right way". If he'd not put the "with all its negative consequences" it'd have been passable.


The decision is wrong, though. It is wrong because of those "negative consequences". Imagine if he said "yeah, you'll be alright without us I'm sure, but the door is always open for you to change your minds". That would have been condescending.


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