Brexit

Meep wrote:
Wrathy wrote:The thing that annoys me about last nights votes is the one that meant the government is explicitly ignoring the Good Friday Agreement. I've always been a Unionist but as someone who grew up in a healing, post troubles Northern Ireland it's making me start to seriously question how much it really benefits NI to continue the arrangement. We aren't just an unconvenience, we're an irrelevance. Our little peace treaty that formally ended 30 years of civil war, decades of explicit discrimination, and gave some building blocks for a better future simply doesn't matter when the English want to be small minded and inwards looking idiots about things they aren't even stopping with this idiotic economic self harm.

Obviously there's a bit more at stake like the fact about half the economy is directly or indirectly taxpayer funded, the brain drain of smart young people having to leave for the mainland etc but as a statement last night was a massive strawberry float you from the British government to the people of NI.

I used to support remaining in the UK because it seemed the best option for the continued welfare of NI, however that is not the case any more. After the Brexit vote and looking to the ROI where they are having amazing levels of growth and investment compared to up here I think it's fairly clear that being in a united Ireland makes much more sense than being partitioned off by the border controls that will surely come into force after leaving the EU. Unfortunately, unless there is a miraculous conversion of the population here in their tribal loyalties I don't think this will happen and the south will proceed to speed well ahead of us. Our best and brightest will either cross the border to work in Dublin or go to London (which will probably remain relatively wealthy even if the rest of the UK declines after withdrawing).

I think it's becoming clearer that a United ireland is in our best interests - if former U.K. leaning people like yourself and me are shifting towards it, combined with the effects of a hard border (and there will be one, let's not kid ourselves) it's probably only a matter of time until there's enough of a shift nationally into supporting reunification. I think the harder part will be convincing the republic that it's worthwhile. I'm not too well versed on their politics but we're a bit of a banana republic with fictional politics and no meaningful economy, so taking on 1.8 million people who are mostly deadweight and a country that both needs investment and demands a better NHS and state services than they have in the South would take some time to implement. All the North really needs (alongside time and the harm England does to it) is a meaningful nationalist party that isn't anointed with terrorism and has a spine - I'll come back and found it myself if I have to ......

Errkal wrote:I wouldn't be all too surprised if there wasn't a lib dem resurgence.

I know I'm sure as hell voting Lib Dems.

I know people say they lied about their campaign promises, but they helped keep the tories in check during that period. Look at the government without them. The tories wanted this all along.

I rarely see this Wrathy fella post in here. He's largely spot on. Not sure how the 'No, never' crowd would take to a United Ireland, but I think it would be a good move.

I don't think you guys have any viable alternatives but the Lib Dems. Unless your independent candidates are awesome.

Squinty wrote:I rarely see this Wrathy fella post in here. He's largely spot on. Not sure how the 'No, never' crowd would take to a United Ireland, but I think it would be a good move.

I don't think you guys have any viable alternatives but the Lib Dems. Unless your independent candidates are awesome.

Not a fella :dread:

Otherwise thanks. In England I'm a card carrying Lib Dem and have been since my student days in 2012 so that's largely where I'm coming from on real politics. The No Never crowd can become No Nay Never with a bit of persuasion - I think if they see their own kind (e.g. I'm from a very loyalist background, have family members who were in the forces and RUC etc) arguing strongly and positively for a move away from DUP style, RHI scams for the party donors farces etc, they might be more prepared to work towards a decent Ireland.

Ultimately there's always going to be dissenters but Stormont is dysfunctional as an executive as it stands and for NI politics to mature it really needs to be disbanded and actually confront some left/right issues which aren't just decided based on pocket money from westminster. If NI was forced to contribute more to a smaller population where it could more readily see the benefits, then I don't think there'd be the same sort of seething undercurrent of resentment that the nationalist side held (rightly, in the full contextual view of history) for the past two centuries. As it stands NI is an amazing place full of very smart, highly educated people, who have little to no career prospects and even fewer reasons to try and change that. I guess I just want it to live up to its potential rather than coast along without anyone behind the wheel as it currently does.

People like Moggy need to be voting for the Lib Dems again. As time goes on their blunders look smaller and smaller.

I live in a CON/LIB area so my decision is easy. Kick out the Tories.

PostRe: The EU Referendum: The UK votes Leave by KK » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:18 pm

Tim Cook isn't worried about Brexit...

BBC News wrote:Technology giant Apple is "very optimistic" about the UK's future post-Brexit, its boss has told the prime minister.

Apple's chief executive Tim Cook met Theresa May at Downing Street and said he thought the UK would be "just fine"' outside the European Union.

The company plans to build a new UK headquarters in London.

His comments came as the US Chamber of Commerce said US firms had been delaying UK investment decisions.

It has thousands of members in the US, including many large multinationals.

Its head of international affairs, Myron Brilliant, told the BBC firms were worried about future trade rules.

He said they thought there could be new regulatory challenges once the UK was now longer in the EU.
'Bumps in road'

However, at his meeting with the prime minister, Mr Cook said:"We're a big believer in the UK - we think you'll be just fine.

"Yes there will be bumps in the road along the way but the UK's going to be fine."

In a statement following the meeting, Apple said: "We are proud that Apple's innovation and growth now supports nearly 300,000 jobs across the UK. "

Apple's new UK headquarters will be in the redeveloped Battersea Power Station. Last year the company said it would move 1,600 staff there in 2021.

Mr Cook described it as a huge headquarters and said the company was "leaving significant space there to expand."

'Vested stakeholders'

Earlier the US Chamber of Commerce's Mr Brilliant told BBC Radio 5 live's Wake Up To Money: "They're [US firms] worried about what the transition rules are going to look like.

"They're worried about whether there are going to be new regulatory challenges, impediments, and so we're going to see how that plays out over the next two years.

"One also expects that the UK-EU will have a trade agreement. But what we're saying from Washington is that we're going to be vested stakeholders, as we have been in terms of our businesses here."

"One also expects that the UK-EU will have a trade agreement. But what we're saying from Washington is that we're going to be vested stakeholders, as we have been in terms of our businesses here."
He added: "Of course, some companies are holding back investment to see how this plays out. That makes sense.

"But there is no question that Europe is an important part of any company's international strategy.

"And so it's not that they're going to pull back from Europe, but they are going to realign their investments, depending on how these negotiations go."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38920860

Bet they can't wait for those tax breaks!

KKLEIN wrote:Tim Cook isn't worried about Brexit...

BBC News wrote:Technology giant Apple is "very optimistic" about the UK's future post-Brexit, its boss has told the prime minister.

Apple's chief executive Tim Cook met Theresa May at Downing Street and said he thought the UK would be "just fine"' outside the European Union.

The company plans to build a new UK headquarters in London.

His comments came as the US Chamber of Commerce said US firms had been delaying UK investment decisions.

It has thousands of members in the US, including many large multinationals.

Its head of international affairs, Myron Brilliant, told the BBC firms were worried about future trade rules.

He said they thought there could be new regulatory challenges once the UK was now longer in the EU.
'Bumps in road'

However, at his meeting with the prime minister, Mr Cook said:"We're a big believer in the UK - we think you'll be just fine.

"Yes there will be bumps in the road along the way but the UK's going to be fine."

In a statement following the meeting, Apple said: "We are proud that Apple's innovation and growth now supports nearly 300,000 jobs across the UK. "

Apple's new UK headquarters will be in the redeveloped Battersea Power Station. Last year the company said it would move 1,600 staff there in 2021.

Mr Cook described it as a huge headquarters and said the company was "leaving significant space there to expand."

'Vested stakeholders'

Earlier the US Chamber of Commerce's Mr Brilliant told BBC Radio 5 live's Wake Up To Money: "They're [US firms] worried about what the transition rules are going to look like.

"They're worried about whether there are going to be new regulatory challenges, impediments, and so we're going to see how that plays out over the next two years.

"One also expects that the UK-EU will have a trade agreement. But what we're saying from Washington is that we're going to be vested stakeholders, as we have been in terms of our businesses here."

"One also expects that the UK-EU will have a trade agreement. But what we're saying from Washington is that we're going to be vested stakeholders, as we have been in terms of our businesses here."
He added: "Of course, some companies are holding back investment to see how this plays out. That makes sense.

"But there is no question that Europe is an important part of any company's international strategy.

"And so it's not that they're going to pull back from Europe, but they are going to realign their investments, depending on how these negotiations go."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38920860

Bet they can't wait for those tax breaks!

We are expected to become a tax haven post Brexit.

Apple avoid paying tax.

I wonder why they are optimistic?

DML wrote:People like Moggy need to be voting for the Lib Dems again. As time goes on their blunders look smaller and smaller.

I live in a CON/LIB area so my decision is easy. Kick out the Tories.

I'm not sure I yet forgive them for Clegg.

Plus I am not sure I like Farron, he talks a good game but his religious views (see gay marriage) put me off.

Plus I live in a LAB/LIB area with a Labour MP that voted again Brexit and against her leader. And she has an awesome name.

I feel like Labour's Corbyn experiment has run its course. Hopefully he'll fall on his sword before the next GE. I don't think it's entirely fair as he's had a really cruel uphill battle with the press, opposition and even his own party all having it in for him from the very start. Despite the fact I absolutely agree with him on most political issues (except Brexit), I think he's just been too damaged at this point to make a meaningful comeback.

Andy Burnham or Chuka should be able to see off May.

Chuka's the obvious candidate but he won't run unfortunately.

Keir Starmer would be a strong, left field choice untainted from either the perceived disasters of the last Labour government or Corbyn's premiership.

I can't see how Labour can win 2020. Scotland is probably lost for the foreseeable future. Boundaries being equalised will remove the Labour bias that currently exists. And left wing politics seems to not be in fashion atm in most of England. It's hard to see how they can win it.

I think not supporting article 50 being triggered is going to be a massive stick to be beaten with so a labour leader trying to prevent it is likely doomed to fail too.

I disagree, I think he will be beaten for not fighting it, I don't think anywhere near the same support for brexit still exists and many will have hoped labour would save them from their idiotic mistake.

Errkal wrote:I disagree, I think he will be beaten for not fighting it, I don't think anywhere near the same support for brexit still exists and many will have hoped labour would save them from their idiotic mistake.

If anyone but Corbyn had been in charge they might have had a chance of that. Their mistake was backing the left wing version of Nigel Farage.

Yeah I agree.

He is out right the wrong person and just accelerates the bullshit brexit and let's that banana split may get away with anything she wants.

Shadow wrote:I feel like Labour's Corbyn experiment has run its course. Hopefully he'll fall on his sword before the next GE. I don't think it's entirely fair as he's had a really cruel uphill battle with the press, opposition and even his own party all having it in for him from the very start. Despite the fact I absolutely agree with him on most political issues (except Brexit), I think he's just been too damaged at this point to make a meaningful comeback.

Andy Burnham or Chuka should be able to see off May.

Although i would prefer Burnham and Chuka to May i think that the labour party is too damaged to defeat the Tories at the next general election. A massive amount of the public honestly think that the Labour party were to blame for the financial crash for overspending, despite all the financial evidence showing that wasn't the case.

Shadow wrote:I feel like Labour's Corbyn experiment has run its course. Hopefully he'll fall on his sword before the next GE. I don't think it's entirely fair as he's had a really cruel uphill battle with the press, opposition and even his own party all having it in for him from the very start. Despite the fact I absolutely agree with him on most political issues (except Brexit), I think he's just been too damaged at this point to make a meaningful comeback.

I agree, he has some decent ideas and actually seems to care about ordinary people but if Labour want a chance in the next general election then he can't be the party leader.

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Shadow wrote:I feel like Labour's Corbyn experiment has run its course. Hopefully he'll fall on his sword before the next GE. I don't think it's entirely fair as he's had a really cruel uphill battle with the press, opposition and even his own party all having it in for him from the very start. Despite the fact I absolutely agree with him on most political issues (except Brexit), I think he's just been too damaged at this point to make a meaningful comeback.

Andy Burnham or Chuka should be able to see off May.

Although i would prefer Burnham and Chuka to May i think that the labour party is too damaged to defeat the Tories at the next general election. A massive amount of the public honestly think that the Labour party were to blame for the financial crash for overspending, despite all the financial evidence showing that wasn't the case.

Nah, politics has changed since then. It's much simpler now. You just need to have a good orator with a snappy catchphrase. Whoever has the best soundbyte wins:

"Change we can believe in" / "YES WE CAN!"
"We're going to fix Broken Britain"
"We've got to finish the job"
"We've got to take back control"
"We're going to make America great again"

Words like this can get into people's heads, it's great marketing and it absolutely works. When you consider how finely balanced two-party politics usually is, a good emotive soundbyte can tip the balance.

The Conservatives are unfortunately very likely to gain power in 2020, but its actually pretty likely it'll be a hung parliament. It was kind of miraculous the Tories got the majority last time, and with four parties picking up large numbers of MPs potentially, a coalition looks likely, especially as May is unlikely to be able to escape criticism free come 2020.

Corbyn has too much baggage at this point I think, which is a shame because he actually has morals. However, Labour supporters will not be able to back him after the three-line whip.

TBH, I'm not sure I care who comes into power in 2020, I just know who I want out - because the country and what I want my country to be and represent will already be ruined at that point.

Yeah, the fact we won't have another election until 2020 is awful, because by that point the damage will already be done. This is all Camerons fault. God I hate him.

Brexit

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

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