Brexit

captain red dog wrote:Howard's clumsy comment aside, there is absolutely no chance of war with Spain. Remainers are in a bit of hyped state about this!

Also Moggy, how very dare you. Michael Howard will never be one of my team you cheeky monkey!

You said it was a Remainer fantasy. And what Remainers are hyped? The right wing Leavers are frothing at the gash at the idea of a war, the only comments from Remainers I've seen are either "wtf?" or pointing out that it only took 4 days for a prominent Leaver to start threatening war.

The only fantasy about war with Spain was Howard's fantasy, he is a Leaver and is therefore part of your team. You might not like him, but you hold a similar view (that Britain should be outside the EU).

You literally have The Telegraph postulating that the British Navy could totally have the Spanish from this, how on earth is it a Remainer fantasy?

Why would any Remainer want a war to say 'we told you so?' (presuming that's why we want that to happen of course)...

Project Fear indeed

Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

TBH, the early signs for Brexit being a success is a bit like saying Arsenals season is a success. Its a bit of a stretch on current evidence. Just being realistic.

DML wrote:TBH, the early signs for Brexit being a success is a bit like saying Arsenals season is a success. Its a bit of a stretch on current evidence. Just being realistic.

That's a poor analogy, it's unlikely that Britain will end up being top 6.

Lucien wrote:

BID0 wrote:

Lucien wrote:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Indeed. Millions of people believed that in order to stop millions of Muslims coming to this country we had to leave the EU as they were told that they were all coming into the EU, gaining citizenship in Germany and then they could all come over here. The problem is realistically I think if EU immigration drops then it will increase from these parts of the world. Which goes against what people thought they were voting for.

At least now the government can control immigration. It could limit the immigration of Muslims, though I doubt it will any time soon, tbh.

We have always had control of our borders though

And now we have a Prime Minister who while Home Secretary basically cut staffing levels at the borders and there was that big story of not knowing how many people entered the country illegally

We couldn't/can't control EU immigration numbers.

We didn't have any real need to either.
It was also a 2 way system. People seem to forget it was just as easy for us to go to other EU countries as it is for people from other EU countries to come here.

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Gibraltar is not part of the UK.

Why shouldn't Spain have a say in who it trades with and who enters Spain? Gibraltar has a land border with Spain - Leaver logic suggests that Spain should have say in which non-EU citizens it trades with and how it controls its borders.

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Gibraltar is not part of the UK.

Why shouldn't Spain have a say in who it trades with and who enters Spain? Gibraltar has a land border with Spain - Leaver logic suggests that Spain should have say in which non-EU citizens it trades with and how it controls its borders.

So you don't think any trade terms with Gibraltar should be the same as the UK? Entry in and out of the country they should have a say in (as they would for other UK residents entering Spain), but the same trade deal reached with the UK should apply.

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Gibraltar is not part of the UK.

Why shouldn't Spain have a say in who it trades with and who enters Spain? Gibraltar has a land border with Spain - Leaver logic suggests that Spain should have say in which non-EU citizens it trades with and how it controls its borders.

So you don't think any trade terms with Gibraltar should be the same as the UK? Entry in and out of the country they should have a say in (as they would for other UK residents entering Spain), but the same trade deal reached with the UK should apply.

Under the Gibraltar constitution of 2006, Gibraltar governs its own affairs, though some powers, such as defence and foreign relations, remain the responsibility of the British govern

Something I never knew the Isle of Man, jersey and Guernsey are not part of the eu but are in the European customs union.

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Gibraltar is not part of the UK.

Why shouldn't Spain have a say in who it trades with and who enters Spain? Gibraltar has a land border with Spain - Leaver logic suggests that Spain should have say in which non-EU citizens it trades with and how it controls its borders.

So you don't think any trade terms with Gibraltar should be the same as the UK? Entry in and out of the country they should have a say in (as they would for other UK residents entering Spain), but the same trade deal reached with the UK should apply.

You think the same trade deal should apply to Monserrat, the Cayman Islands, the British Antarctic Territory, the Pitcairn Islands and Bermuda?

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Gibraltar is not part of the UK.

Why shouldn't Spain have a say in who it trades with and who enters Spain? Gibraltar has a land border with Spain - Leaver logic suggests that Spain should have say in which non-EU citizens it trades with and how it controls its borders.

So you don't think any trade terms with Gibraltar should be the same as the UK? Entry in and out of the country they should have a say in (as they would for other UK residents entering Spain), but the same trade deal reached with the UK should apply.

You think the same trade deal should apply to Monserrat, the Cayman Islands, the British Antarctic Territory, the Pitcairn Islands and Bermuda?

So I guess your answer to my question is "no". In answer to your question, if Spain has different trade agreements with all the locations you mentioned, then no, but they aren't part of the EU.

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Gibraltar is not part of the UK.

Why shouldn't Spain have a say in who it trades with and who enters Spain? Gibraltar has a land border with Spain - Leaver logic suggests that Spain should have say in which non-EU citizens it trades with and how it controls its borders.

So you don't think any trade terms with Gibraltar should be the same as the UK? Entry in and out of the country they should have a say in (as they would for other UK residents entering Spain), but the same trade deal reached with the UK should apply.

You think the same trade deal should apply to Monserrat, the Cayman Islands, the British Antarctic Territory, the Pitcairn Islands and Bermuda?

So I guess your answer to my question is "no". In answer to your question, if Spain has different trade agreements with all the locations you mentioned, then no, but they aren't part of the EU.

Also they don't share a land border with Spain.

lex-man wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Death's Head wrote:

Moggy wrote:Leavers: "We want to be free to decide for ourselves who we trade with and under what terms! We also want strong borders so we can stop people coming in!"

Spain/EU: "After Brexit, we want to give Spain a say on any trade deal with Gibraltar"

Leavers: "WAR!!!!!!!"

I don't understand why Spain should specifically have a say. They should be considered as part of the UK and therefore should be considered as such, not a separate entity that Spain has some special say over.

Is France getting some special say over the Channel Islands? Giving Spain a say over Gibraltar is just opening old wounds, maybe deliberately.

Gibraltar is not part of the UK.

Why shouldn't Spain have a say in who it trades with and who enters Spain? Gibraltar has a land border with Spain - Leaver logic suggests that Spain should have say in which non-EU citizens it trades with and how it controls its borders.

So you don't think any trade terms with Gibraltar should be the same as the UK? Entry in and out of the country they should have a say in (as they would for other UK residents entering Spain), but the same trade deal reached with the UK should apply.

You think the same trade deal should apply to Monserrat, the Cayman Islands, the British Antarctic Territory, the Pitcairn Islands and Bermuda?

So I guess your answer to my question is "no". In answer to your question, if Spain has different trade agreements with all the locations you mentioned, then no, but they aren't part of the EU.

Also they don't share a land border with Spain.

What's a land border got to do with it? Should Serbia get the same deal because it has a land border with the EU? Very soon the UK and Gibraltar will be as separate to the EU as Serbia is now. Or do you think ex-members of the club should get special deals?

Those places have the same relationship with the UK as Gibraltar, why would Gibraltar deserve different deals to them?

Death's Head is correct that those places are not part of the EU, neither will Gibraltar be soon.

Inspired by another Kelvin MacKenzie headline (Up Yours Delors):

twitter.com/alliehbnews/status/849014837346791424

The Sun really appealing to their longtime readers these past few weeks. All dat NOSTALGIA.

KK wrote:Inspired by another Kelvin MacKenzie headline (Up Yours Delors):

twitter.com/alliehbnews/status/849014837346791424

The Sun really appealing to their longtime readers these past few weeks. All dat NOSTALGIA.

That really looks like a Remainer fantasy.

The Sun is awful and anyone who reads it should be deeply ashamed.

No I think that Spain have an interest in protecting their boarder. So should get a say.

Karl wrote:The Sun is awful and anyone who reads it should be deeply ashamed.

But they are offering a free poster!