Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:22 pm

Moggy wrote:
Denster wrote:What has to be negotiated is a deal that hopefully suits both parties.


Theresa May can't even negotiate with the DUP, she's got no strawberry floating chance with the entire EU.

I'm sorry but the ship has sailed. You really need to start dealing with it and move on.


No, we don't need to. If you think something is wrong then you shouldn't just sit back and accept it. Even if all you do is moan on an internet forum, you should do so if you want to.

I also imagine you would be singing a different tune if your strong and stable leader hadn't said Brexit means Brexit.


No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.

And it doesn't matter if you think it's wrong Moggy - you and I and DMl and Karl all know it's probably wrong - but the result is not going to change. That's my point. The two main parties are supporting it.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:26 pm

Denster wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Denster wrote:What has to be negotiated is a deal that hopefully suits both parties.


Theresa May can't even negotiate with the DUP, she's got no strawberry floating chance with the entire EU.

I'm sorry but the ship has sailed. You really need to start dealing with it and move on.


No, we don't need to. If you think something is wrong then you shouldn't just sit back and accept it. Even if all you do is moan on an internet forum, you should do so if you want to.

I also imagine you would be singing a different tune if your strong and stable leader hadn't said Brexit means Brexit.


No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.

And it doesn't matter if you think it's wrong Moggy - you and I and DMl and Karl all know it's probably wrong - but the result is not going to change. That's my point. The two main parties are supporting it.


I get your point. I have acknowledged plenty of times that Brexit is almost certainly going to happen.

Where we differ is you seem to think people should put up and shut up. Which I don’t think is right. The only think Remain supporters have left is to make their feelings known, to keep awareness of the dangers of Brexit up and to keep the pressure on politicians. Because otherwise we go down the road that the likes of Farage want.

You haven’t dealt with it better, you have rolled over and accepted defeat.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:29 pm

Denster wrote:
DML wrote:
Denster wrote:
DML wrote:
Denster wrote:
DML wrote:I think whether people like to admit it or not, the remain argument looking preeeetty strong right now.


You do know that we've had the argument and that Leave won?


No democratic decision should be forever.

We're not talking about forever. But we have had a referendum and we did vote to leave. That should be respected and we should allow a reasonable period of time to elapse before revisiting it.



Okay, let me give another example.

At the moment, Theresa May is struggling to form a government. If she is unable to form a government - and no-one else is either, should we sit in limbo forever? No, we should call another general election to make a new decision fairly sharpish - whether that ends up going Tory or Labour's way - the current situation is in the best interests of no-one.

Right now, Brexit is in the exact same predicament. Its not only hard to implement under the current non-government, but its also clear that there are way more complications than first though, to the extent it may be impossible to implement, or certainly to complete before the deadline. Apparently, under these very familiar circumstances, we should sit in limbo.

The whole country is a crock of shite Denster, time to admit defeat.


If there was another general election it wouldn't change the result of the referendum. Unless the Lib Dems get a majority. :P Labour would still go ahead with Brexit.

As for the rest of the nitpicking - utter bollocks. We've had the vote. Unless another party makes another referendum part of their manifesto - it's not going to be overturned. All the wishing and moaning in the world is not going to change that.

What has to be negotiated is a deal that hopefully suits both parties.
I'm sorry but the ship has sailed. You really need to start dealing with it and move on.



I hope the irony of that last sentiment is not lost on you.


I won't move on because I think its that insane. It'd be like saying 'move on' over Trump's presidency. No! Its strawberry floating stupid!

I'm gonna keep banging on about it, and you are going to just have to deal with that. I hope you enjoy critique, you'll get a lot of it at this rate.

bear
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PostRe: Brexit
by bear » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:31 pm

I'd prefer if the whole Brexit idea could be scrapped but at this point I think it needs to happen for the long term benefit of the UK.

If it turns out that Brexit is great then that's fine.

If it turns out that Brexit is a bit of a dog's dinner and people want to get back into the EU then that'll put an end to Euroscepticism.


Backtracking on the referendum result with some sort of fudge just lets Euroscepticism fester on for a few more years before an inevitable Brexit at a later date.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:32 pm

Denster wrote:
No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.



Is it? Really?

I don't think thats healthy at ALL personally.

After all, a critical attitude has binned one of the worst manifestos in political history. Clearly its in the best interest. You might not like the moaning, but to suggest it doesn't work and isn't healthy at this point after that election result is basically having your head in the sand.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:35 pm

Denster, like lots of Leave, is trying to argue Plurality - mostly a preemptive defense why the gooseberry fool hitting the fan is not their fault.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:37 pm

DML wrote:
Denster wrote:
No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.



Is it? Really?

I don't think thats healthy at ALL personally.

After all, a critical attitude has binned one of the worst manifestos in political history. Clearly its in the best interest. You might not like the moaning, but to suggest it doesn't work and isn't healthy at this point after that election result is basically having your head in the sand.


So you accept the result of the general election but not the referendum. :P

Oh and i'd rather have my head in the sand (though it clearly isn't) than banging it against a brick wall as you're proposing to do. Incessantly.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:40 pm

Hexx wrote:Denster, like lots of Leave, is trying to argue Plurality - mostly a preemptive defense why the gooseberry fool hitting the fan is not their fault.



I've made it pretty clear that I voted remain. I've also made it pretty clear that however dismaying and disappointing that is for me personally - I respect and accept the results of the referendum.

I'm not a leaver. I'm an acceptor that we're going to be leaving.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:41 pm

bear wrote:I'd prefer if the whole Brexit idea could be scrapped but at this point I think it needs to happen for the long term benefit of the UK.

If it turns out that Brexit is great then that's fine.

If it turns out that Brexit is a bit of a dog's dinner and people want to get back into the EU then that'll put an end to Euroscepticism.


Backtracking on the referendum result with some sort of fudge just lets Euroscepticism fester on for a few more years before an inevitable Brexit at a later date.


Spot on.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:42 pm

Denster wrote:
DML wrote:
Denster wrote:
No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.



Is it? Really?

I don't think thats healthy at ALL personally.

After all, a critical attitude has binned one of the worst manifestos in political history. Clearly its in the best interest. You might not like the moaning, but to suggest it doesn't work and isn't healthy at this point after that election result is basically having your head in the sand.


So you accept the result of the general election but not the referendum. :P

Oh and i'd rather have my head in the sand (though it clearly isn't) than banging it against a brick wall as you're proposing to do. Incessantly.


Its not a brick wall. Its already falling to bits. Soft Brexit at this point is highly likely, and lots of things could happen politically that might prevent Brexit entirely.

Its more unhealthy in my mind to just sit back and accept something I believe to be wrong and completely illogical. It'd be like asking you to support City forevermore because United didn't win a cup one year. You clearly don't agree with it, so why would you go ahead with it? Its a nonsense.

Politics is about standing up for what you believe in. I believe millions voted uninformed and I believe that if the referendum was run tomorrow Leave would lose, and I think deep down many people know that.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:43 pm

Denster wrote:
Hexx wrote:Denster, like lots of Leave, is trying to argue Plurality - mostly a preemptive defense why the gooseberry fool hitting the fan is not their fault.



I've made it pretty clear that I voted remain. I've also made it pretty clear that however dismaying and disappointing that is for me personally - I respect and accept the results of the referendum.

I'm not a leaver. I'm an acceptor that we're going to be leaving.


Most of us have accepted that the country is going to end up leaving. We don’t have any choice in the matter.

The difference is we continue to be vocal about thinking it is wrong to leave, whereas you think everyone should just shut up and get on with it even if it is going to be bad.

As I keep saying, the question has not closed and there are still many options on the table. Sitting back and letting the hard right Tories and the likes of Farage dictate how this country moves forward is not a palatable solution to many people in this thread.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:45 pm

Moggy wrote:
Denster wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Denster wrote:What has to be negotiated is a deal that hopefully suits both parties.


Theresa May can't even negotiate with the DUP, she's got no strawberry floating chance with the entire EU.

I'm sorry but the ship has sailed. You really need to start dealing with it and move on.


No, we don't need to. If you think something is wrong then you shouldn't just sit back and accept it. Even if all you do is moan on an internet forum, you should do so if you want to.

I also imagine you would be singing a different tune if your strong and stable leader hadn't said Brexit means Brexit.


No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.

And it doesn't matter if you think it's wrong Moggy - you and I and DMl and Karl all know it's probably wrong - but the result is not going to change. That's my point. The two main parties are supporting it.


I get your point. I have acknowledged plenty of times that Brexit is almost certainly going to happen.

Where we differ is you seem to think people should put up and shut up. Which I don’t think is right. The only think Remain supporters have left is to make their feelings known, to keep awareness of the dangers of Brexit up and to keep the pressure on politicians. Because otherwise we go down the road that the likes of Farage want.

You haven’t dealt with it better, you have rolled over and accepted defeat.


Again with this. :lol:

That's based on the assumption that enough fuss and moaning and the decision will be reversed or the process to do that will be set in motion. It isn't going to happen. You are all basically railing against something that has already been decided. It isn't going to be overturned.


Arguing it was wrong or based on lies or whatever is just a gigantic waste of time. It's done.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:49 pm

DML wrote:
Denster wrote:
DML wrote:
Denster wrote:
No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.



Is it? Really?

I don't think thats healthy at ALL personally.

After all, a critical attitude has binned one of the worst manifestos in political history. Clearly its in the best interest. You might not like the moaning, but to suggest it doesn't work and isn't healthy at this point after that election result is basically having your head in the sand.


So you accept the result of the general election but not the referendum. :P

Oh and i'd rather have my head in the sand (though it clearly isn't) than banging it against a brick wall as you're proposing to do. Incessantly.


Its not a brick wall. Its already falling to bits. Soft Brexit at this point is highly likely, and lots of things could happen politically that might prevent Brexit entirely.

Its more unhealthy in my mind to just sit back and accept something I believe to be wrong and completely illogical. It'd be like asking you to support City forevermore because United didn't win a cup one year. You clearly don't agree with it, so why would you go ahead with it? Its a nonsense.

Politics is about standing up for what you believe in. I believe millions voted uninformed and I believe that if the referendum was run tomorrow Leave would lose, and I think deep down many people know that.


Quite possibly. But isn't going to be. That is my whole point.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:50 pm

Denster wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Denster wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Denster wrote:What has to be negotiated is a deal that hopefully suits both parties.


Theresa May can't even negotiate with the DUP, she's got no strawberry floating chance with the entire EU.

I'm sorry but the ship has sailed. You really need to start dealing with it and move on.


No, we don't need to. If you think something is wrong then you shouldn't just sit back and accept it. Even if all you do is moan on an internet forum, you should do so if you want to.

I also imagine you would be singing a different tune if your strong and stable leader hadn't said Brexit means Brexit.


No. Actually. I accepted the democratic will of the people. I was disappointed and dismayed for all the same reasons you were. I've just dealt with it better because accepting reality is a much healthier option. Nothing to do with May saying Brexit means Brexit. At all.

And it doesn't matter if you think it's wrong Moggy - you and I and DMl and Karl all know it's probably wrong - but the result is not going to change. That's my point. The two main parties are supporting it.


I get your point. I have acknowledged plenty of times that Brexit is almost certainly going to happen.

Where we differ is you seem to think people should put up and shut up. Which I don’t think is right. The only think Remain supporters have left is to make their feelings known, to keep awareness of the dangers of Brexit up and to keep the pressure on politicians. Because otherwise we go down the road that the likes of Farage want.

You haven’t dealt with it better, you have rolled over and accepted defeat.


Again with this. :lol:

That's based on the assumption that enough fuss and moaning and the decision will be reversed or the process to do that will be set in motion. It isn't going to happen. You are all basically railing against something that has already been decided. It isn't going to be overturned.


Arguing it was wrong or based on lies or whatever is just a gigantic waste of time. It's done.


You don’t think public opinion ever changes a governments mind? Your own Tory party has done enough u-turns on policy over the last few years to show that they do indeed change their minds if they think there will be enough public outcry.

But you are missing the point yet again. I accept that the country is going to end up going through Brexit, there is little we can do to stop it. But the method of Brexit is absolutely up for grabs and people should be making their thoughts and desires clear to put pressure on the government to do the right thing for the country, rather than what is right for Rupert Murdoch, Nigel Farage and the hard right Tories.

Roll over and accept it by all means Denny, but you are the one wasting your time if you think you can silence people from discussing Brexit in a dedicated Brexit thread.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:52 pm

Denster wrote:
Hexx wrote:Denster, like lots of Leave, is trying to argue Plurality - mostly a preemptive defense why the gooseberry fool hitting the fan is not their fault.



I've made it pretty clear that I voted remain. I've also made it pretty clear that however dismaying and disappointing that is for me personally - I respect and accept the results of the referendum.

I'm not a leaver. I'm an acceptor that we're going to be leaving.


Accepting the result of that racist, hate and lie filled campaign that will do irrevocable social and economic harm as "the will of the people" is not some act of magnanimous respect or something to be lauded.

Nor is leaving the implementation of said campaign to it's instigators and cheerleaders some sort of nobler concession.

Will Brexit happen? Almost certainly. But we should fight tooth and nail to mitigate the harm it will cause - including loudly and repeatedly warning about the negative consequences that are and will occur (as well as pointing out who's strawberry floating fault this suffering is in an effort to avoid it in future) - particularly if they follow certain options to it's delivery?
.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:56 pm

Discussing brexit is one thing, Moggy - and you know full well that it isn't just the hard right that are supporting it - but that's not my issue. Refusing to accept the result and forever bleating about it is.

Look we aren't going to agree and you guys are clearly not going to stop so I suppose i'll just have to do what you cant and accept something I cannot change or do anything about. That this thread is going to periodically experience rainfall of yours and DML's ass tears.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:01 pm

Denster wrote:Discussing brexit is one thing, Moggy - and you know full well that it isn't just the hard right that are supporting it - but that's not my issue. Refusing to accept the result and forever bleating about it is.

Look we aren't going to agree and you guys are clearly not going to stop so I suppose i'll just have to do what you cant and accept something I cannot change or do anything about. That this thread is going to periodically experience rainfall of yours and DML's ass tears.


You need to learn to read. I have said (repeatedly) that I accept the country is going to leave the EU. I think it is wrong to do it and I will not stop saying it. We live in a society where people are free to express their political opinions, just because you like to roll over, doesn't mean the rest of us do. The method of Brexit is still to be fought for and nobody is going to be silent about it just because you think they should.

That's not ass tears or whatever other alt-right buzzwords you come up with, that's just the way it is.

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Denster
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PostRe: Brexit
by Denster » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:07 pm

Anyway to a more pertinent issue - ive got to go and deal with a honeybee infestation at work. :lol:


strawberry floating Tories! :x

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:09 pm

Denster wrote:Anyway to a more pertinent issue - ive got to go and deal with a honeybee infestation at work. :lol:


strawberry floating Tories! :x


The bees have already moved in and so you might as well just accept that they live there now. No point wasting time by trying to move them on when they have clearly decided that they like it where they are.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:13 pm

People should be free to keep arguing for what they believe in, no matter if a vote goes against their beliefs. Things can change in future, this is politics. We could still be looking at a hard Brexit right now if people hadn't been arguing against it.


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