Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:06 pm

Give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. Teach a boy to fish and he can eat for a lifetime. Moral of the story we all need to catch our own fish.

So true babes. xxx

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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:42 pm

Isn't this going to lead to reciprocity? They will ban UK boats from EU waters. Not sure how many people will be effected by that.

In any case, hopefully we can enforce tougher restrictions in UK waters and create a haven for fish stocks that help preserve it for future generations. The EU has repeatedly ignored scientific advise on quotas for years. I'm not holding my breath, however, since UK environmental policy is far from stellar.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lex-Man » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:47 pm

Meep wrote:Isn't this going to lead to reciprocity? They will ban UK boats from EU waters. Not sure how many people will be effected by that.

In any case, hopefully we can enforce tougher restrictions in UK waters and create a haven for fish stocks that help preserve it for future generations. The EU has repeatedly ignored scientific advise on quotas for years. I'm not holding my breath, however, since UK environmental policy is far from stellar.


It wouldn't surprise me if the government just allowed a fishing free for all. They seem to want to get rid of as much environmental protection as possible, why would fishing be any different?

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:03 pm

Guardian wrote:Poll finds that 60% of Britons want to keep their EU citizenship; 85% of 18 to 24 year olds; 80% of people living in London

Six out of 10 Britons want to keep their European Union citizenship after Brexit – including the rights to live, work, study and travel in the EU – and many would be prepared to pay large sums to do so, according to research led by the London School of Economics.

Support for retaining the rights is particularly strong among 18- to 24-year-olds, 85% of whom want to retain their EU citizenship in addition to their British citizenship. Around 80% of people living in London also want to maintain the same rights.

The findings come as pressure on Theresa May mounts from UK business groups, led by the CBI and Remain politicians in both houses of parliament, as well as cultural figures from across Europe, to pull back from her plans for a “hard Brexit” in favour of a deal that maintains the strongest possible trade and other links with the EU after the UK leaves in 2019.

When asked how much they would be prepared to pay to retain EU citizenship, the average sum cited by more than 2,000 respondents to the LSE project (including those who were opposed to the idea and would not want to pay anything) was more than £400.

Michael Bruter, professor of political science and European politics at the LSE, and his colleague Sarah Harrison at the LSE’s electoral psychology initiative (ECREP) worked on the research in conjunction with the polling firm Opinium.

Bruter said the research showed that young people in particular were “very unhappy” at the prospect of losing rights they regarded as fundamental and crucial to their future prospects. “They would paradoxically be willing to pay far more than they currently do [compared with the current per capita contribution to the EU budget made by UK citizens] to retain those rights,” he said.

The LSE/Opinium team found that 73% of voters would like either to protect or extend the rights that current citizens from other EU countries have to vote in the UK; 48% wanted to see the right to vote extended from local elections to general elections, while 25% wished to keep the status quo. Only 10% supported the government’s position of withdrawing EU citizens’ right to vote in local elections.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... hts-brexit

And what party is standing up for these people? The SHITTY LIB DEMS.

While according to today's Telegraph:

Remain 'would win Brexit referendum if held now'

The outcome of the Brexit referendum would be reversed if it was held tomorrow, a poll suggests.

The Survation survey showed a clear majority of Britons (54 per cent) would vote to Remain in the European Union if another referendum was held, while 46 per cent would back Brexit.

As Commons Leader Andrea Leadsom signalled a more consultative approach, the Survation survey also showed just over half want a cross-party coalition of parties to negotiate the UK's exit from the EU, compared to less than a third who think it should fall to the Tory minority Government alone.

Theresa May found herself ahead of Jeremy Corbyn on which leader voters trust more to negotiate the best deal, at 51 per cent to 35 per cent respectively.

However, a majority said the best outcome would be to stop exit talks altogether and work to stay in the EU, while around a third backed paying a fee for access to the tariff-free customs union.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07 ... -held-now/

People are beginning to change their mind...

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Qikz
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PostRe: Brexit
by Qikz » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:03 pm

Lucien wrote:
KK wrote:People are beginning to change their mind...


Remain had similar/higher numbers in the polls leading up the referendum. Farage thought he'd lost even on the night of the vote.

Plus let's not forget how awful the Liberal Democrats did in the GE.


The GE was not about the EU. Also the lib dems didnt really have an anti brexit stance.

The Watching Artist wrote:I feel so inept next to Qikz...
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:58 pm

Lucien wrote:
Qikz wrote:
Lucien wrote:
KK wrote:People are beginning to change their mind...


Remain had similar/higher numbers in the polls leading up the referendum. Farage thought he'd lost even on the night of the vote.

Plus let's not forget how awful the Liberal Democrats did in the GE.


The GE was not about the EU. Also the lib dems didnt really have an anti brexit stance.


Their campaign was all about them being anti-Brexit. They were going to offer a referendum where one of the options was "Stay in the EU" and they were for the single market and freedom of movement.


The GE wasn't faught over Brexit and nobody trusts the Lib Dems anymore.

I think what makes it obvious that Remain would have a good chance in a second referendum is how strawberry floating terrified Leavers are about the possibility. "Will of the people!" and all that, just so long as we don't double check with them. :slol:

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:49 am

Alvin Flummux wrote:Are there even any fish left to catch at this point?

I think we are on trajectory to hit fishless oceans by around 2050. But that's worldwide, I'm not sure where Europe is on that timescale. Probably sooner I'd expect as it's heavily fished?

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:52 am

Lucien wrote:
Qikz wrote:
Lucien wrote:
KK wrote:People are beginning to change their mind...


Remain had similar/higher numbers in the polls leading up the referendum. Farage thought he'd lost even on the night of the vote.

Plus let's not forget how awful the Liberal Democrats did in the GE.


The GE was not about the EU. Also the lib dems didnt really have an anti brexit stance.


Their campaign was all about them being anti-Brexit. They were going to offer a referendum where one of the options was "Stay in the EU" and they were for the single market and freedom of movement.

No party ran an anti Brexit campaign. The closest as you say were the Lib Dems, and even then they were not campaigning against Brexit. And there was a lot more on the agenda than Brexit anyway, such as the day to day things that concern people (like food and jobs)

Last edited by BID0 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:05 am

Lucien wrote:
KK wrote:People are beginning to change their mind...


Remain had similar/higher numbers in the polls leading up the referendum. Farage thought he'd lost even on the night of the vote.

Plus let's not forget how awful the Liberal Democrats did in the GE.


They gained 4 seats. They did well truth be told.

Lets not pretend the Lib Dems are meant to be getting 100+ seats just because they are Anti-Brexit. Who knows what might have happened if Labour had the same policies. If Remainers aren't given a major party that backs Remain, that doesn't dilute the Remain argument.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:51 am

DML wrote:
Lucien wrote:
KK wrote:People are beginning to change their mind...


Remain had similar/higher numbers in the polls leading up the referendum. Farage thought he'd lost even on the night of the vote.

Plus let's not forget how awful the Liberal Democrats did in the GE.


They gained 4 seats. They did well truth be told.

Lets not pretend the Lib Dems are meant to be getting 100+ seats just because they are Anti-Brexit. Who knows what might have happened if Labour had the same policies. If Remainers aren't given a major party that backs Remain, that doesn't dilute the Remain argument.


At the 2015 election, all parties supported Remain except for UKIP who only got one seat.

I guess using Lucien logic that means we should never have had a referendum?

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:24 am

twitter.com/TimHarford/status/881808734342828032



twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/881090229498761216



(Doesn't Canada already have a free trade deal with the EU? What are we re-engaging with?)

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:45 am

I'm not sure what paper this was in (I've taken it from the "Pointless Letters" Twitter account).

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At least he's honest and aware it's going to screw people financially. :lol:

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:45 pm

Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:
Lucien wrote:
KK wrote:People are beginning to change their mind...


Remain had similar/higher numbers in the polls leading up the referendum. Farage thought he'd lost even on the night of the vote.

Plus let's not forget how awful the Liberal Democrats did in the GE.


They gained 4 seats. They did well truth be told.

Lets not pretend the Lib Dems are meant to be getting 100+ seats just because they are Anti-Brexit. Who knows what might have happened if Labour had the same policies. If Remainers aren't given a major party that backs Remain, that doesn't dilute the Remain argument.


They didn't do well. They did worse than they did in 2015; it's only by the grace of FPTP that they gained more seats.


Either way, that is not a good way to guage public mood towards the referendum.

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Blue Eyes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Blue Eyes » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:07 pm

Labour are a bunch of banana splits. I voted for them just because they're not the Tories and Lib Dems had no chance in my area. Labour would have won that strawberry floating thing if they were at least offering a second EU referendum.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:23 pm

Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:Either way, that is not a good way to guage public mood towards the referendum.


I agree and would never take that bit of data on its own. To be honest though, recent years have shown us we should just wait until the votes are counted anyway. Remember when Trump was like 100/1? :lol:

Now he's tweeting memes from the Oval Office.


Well thats fair enough, but look at the Conservatives. You could have got similar odds on that result a while back. The winds do not just blow in one right-wing direction.

I am 100% certain the majority do not want Brexit at this point.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:27 pm

UK pull out of European Fishing agreement.....for no apparent reason...

https://euobserver.com/uk-referendum/138411

This is an historic first step towards building a new domestic fishing policy as we leave the European Union, one which leads to a more competitive, profitable and sustainable industry for the whole of the UK,” environment secretary and Brexit supporter Michael Gove said.


However, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, warned that leaving the London agreement does not mean the UK would be able to unilaterally decide whom to allow in and whom to keep out of its waters.

He said on Twitter that nothing would change because the EU's fishery laws are superior to the London Convention.

:simper:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:48 am

Blue Eyes wrote:Labour are a bunch of banana splits. I voted for them just because they're not the Tories and Lib Dems had no chance in my area. Labour would have won that strawberry floating thing if they were at least offering a second EU referendum.


Most Labour MPs want to Remain. Corbyn doesn't.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lex-Man » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:16 am

Moggy wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:Labour are a bunch of banana splits. I voted for them just because they're not the Tories and Lib Dems had no chance in my area. Labour would have won that strawberry floating thing if they were at least offering a second EU referendum.


Most Labour MPs want to Remain. Corbyn doesn't.


I wouldn't be so sure that Labour would have won if they offered a second referendum.

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Hypes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hypes » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:51 am

Moggy wrote:
Blue Eyes wrote:Labour are a bunch of banana splits. I voted for them just because they're not the Tories and Lib Dems had no chance in my area. Labour would have won that strawberry floating thing if they were at least offering a second EU referendum.


Most Labour MPs want to Remain. Corbyn doesn't.


Let's not pretend Labour would have won by offering a referendum. A lot of their support voted leave. Most Labour MPs want to remain, most Conservative MPs want to remain, but they are cowed to follow the will of the people

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:19 am

It’s impossible to tell how well Labour might or might not have done if they had offered a second referendum. The Lib Dems were never going to pick up much popular support and so the “Brexit election” was never fought on those terms because May and Corbyn were both fully behind the idea of Brexit.

If Labour had a leader who was opposed to Brexit and they had offered a second referendum, then who knows? A lot of Labour core support might support Brexit, but would they vote Tory instead? Would anti-Brexit Tories turn to Labour? Would the young have turned out in even greater numbers than they did for Corbyn?

It’s not something that we can answer one way or the other as there are too many “what ifs” to come up with a likely answer. Without Corbyn we might never have had Brexit in the first place (his lukewarm “support” for Remain pre-referendum) or we might have had a leader that was more willing to fight for the Remainers/continued single market access.


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