Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:39 pm

Moggy wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
KK wrote:
Welt am Sonntag via Breitbart wrote:Microsoft founder Bill Gates has warned that Africa’s population explosion will overwhelm Europe unless the continent makes it more difficult for migrants to reach its shores.

The American billionaire’s comments come as European leaders discuss what to do about the surging number of Africans arriving in Italy each week, with Rome calling for other European Union (EU) nations to open their ports to docking migrants so as to ease pressure on the Mediterranean nation.

In an interview with the German Welt am Sonntag newspaper, Gates said massive population growth in Africa will result in “enormous [migratory] pressure” on Europe unless countries increase overseas development aid payments.

Praising Germany having achieved its commitment to devote 0.7 per cent of GDP to foreign aid as “phenomenal”, the 61-year-old called on “other European nations to follow its example”.

But Gates also spoke of a dilemma caused by ‘the German attitude to refugees’, referring to Chancellor Angela Merkel’s decision to open Europe’s borders to illegal migrants arriving from the third world.

“On the one hand you want to demonstrate generosity and take in refugees, but the more generous you are, the more word gets around about this — which in turn motivates more people to leave Africa,” Gates told the Sunday newspaper.

“Germany cannot possibly take in the huge, massive number of people who are wanting to make their way to Europe.”

Because of this, Gates stressed that “Europe must make it more difficult for Africans to reach the continent via the current transit routes”.

Italy is demanding that other EU nations open their ports to migrants ferried from Libya as the country struggles to cope with having already received over 80,000 people this year.

Calling for African newcomers to be spread throughout Europe, the Mediterranean nation’s globalist centre-left government insisted that the EU migrant relocation programme — which is largely limited to people from Eritrea and Syria — should be expanded to include other nationalities, such as Nigerians.

“Without a swift collective action, we can only expect more tragedies at sea,” he declared, noting that around 2,000 migrants have lost their lives on the sea route from Libya to Italy this year.

The Italian diplomat repeated calls for an “urgent distribution system” for incoming migrants and asylum seekers, and “additional legal pathways to admission”.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/07 ... erwhelmed/ (there is no other current source for the translation)

Cameron was so spot on with his plans for handling this whole situation and nobody took it on board. If you had to point to one situation that swung the overall referendum vote it was probably this.


I do agree that this is a massive problem. It's the only benefit I see to us coming out of the EU, that's on the assumption that we are better protected from the problem out of the EU.


It has no effect on us unless we agree to take people.

We are not in Schengen and have controls over our borders. Freedom of movement only applies to EU nationals, not asylum seekers or fresh off the boat immigrants. And getting citizenship, of say Germany, would take a minimum of 5 years.

Who the hell is oing to risk their life getting to Germany, spend 5 years there, pass all of those citizenship tests and then immediately run off to Britain?


Well the more and more that come to Europe, the more that will try to get into the UK by illegal means. Currently though statistically it looks like they are happy to settle in Germany, France etc than try to risk illegally getting into the UK.

We do still though have a massive problem here with illegal immigration. The scale of the problem is not reported as i don't think the authorities truly have any idea how bad it is.

I read a report the other day that there are believed to be 35,000 illegal Vietnamese people who have got into the UK in the last 5 years alone. How they come to this number I have no idea but i can believe it's high due to what i see in my work. Northampton alone has had 14 Vietnamese 'children' reported as missing in the past 6 months. They were all illegal immigrants, found on lorries, they claimed to be under 18 so were put into social services care and within a few days to weeks they just vanish. Now image this repeated all over the country and it's a shocking statistic. Then think that is just one country that's the other side of the world. Now i don't for one minute think this is happening from every country. In reality it's only a small number of countries where it's citizens are risking their lives to try to get to europe but still the statistics are worrying.

Will we be safer from the problem in or out of the EU? i don't really know. But i believe France, Germany, Italy etc currently have a worse problem than we do.


France, Germany and Italy are part of Schengen. We are not.


Yes I know that.

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Rightey
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rightey » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:46 pm

Cuttooth wrote:I'm reminded of this article from a few months back:

Furthermore, in the wake of the Brexit win, a significant number of those who voted Leave told the media they regretted it, or didn’t understand it, or thought it could be reversed at the next election, or that they did it as a protest against austerity and the Tories.

An irate local farmer told me he voted to leave as a protest against EU bureaucracy that delayed payments of his subsidies. When I pointed out that Defra was responsible for the delays, he said, “That’s right!”. He thought Defra was an EU department. He didn’t realise it was Britain’s Department for Rural Affairs and that the EU had fined our governmental department for its incompetent administration of subsidies. No matter, we got our country back, even if it means losing the subsidies and keeping the incompetence.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 58886.html


:lol: outstanding.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit
by Photek » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:45 am

Actual translation:

According to Microsoft founder Bill Gates, the migration to Europe will increase. "The pressure is enormous - just because of the extremely high population growth in Africa," said Gates of the "World on Sunday".
The 61-year-old US-American has supported the "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation", named after him and his wife, for several years in his view of effective measures against extreme poverty and diseases in Africa and other countries. Gates stressed that Germany had recently achieved its promise to spend 0.7 percent of its gross national income on development aid - which is "phenomenal". "I hope that other European countries will follow the example of Germany," he said. The IT visionary also spoke of a dilemma in the German attitude towards refugees.

"The more generous you are, the more it speaks - which in turn motivates more people to leave Africa," said Gates of the "World on Sunday", "Germany can not do this A huge mass of people who would then be on the way. " This, unfortunately, "Gates continued," means that you must make it harder for people from Africa to use the transatlantic to Europe. " Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel wants to involve more private investors with a G20 Africa initiative launched by the federal government in the hope of fighting refugees on the African continent in this way.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:23 am

I think what he's saying is rational and has foresight. The migration of people is only going to get worse in the next few decades due to various factors. Although resolving these various issues is going to be a massive undertaking. I don't have faith that the government's of the world will be competent enough to deal with it.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:38 am

Sarah Vine, writing on the same subject:

Daily Mail wrote:Yesterday the President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, praised the people of Italy for their 'heroic' actions over the migrant crisis, promising 'solidarity' and declaring, with a hypocrisy spectacular even by his own standards: 'Viva l'Italia!'

The country famously shaped like a boot could be forgiven for aiming its tip firmly in the direction of this gentleman's nether regions. His, and all the other unelected EU officials who've turned a blind eye to a nation that, because of an accident of geography, is bearing the brunt of the influx of people from Libya and North Africa.

This year alone, 84,000 have landed on Italian soil — up 20 per cent on last year. And it's still only the beginning of July.

In Reggio, 1,500 people arrived over the course of a single weekend — almost 1 per cent of that city's population. Things were so bad, the authorities were forced to put them up in the local A&E hospital.

Can you imagine if this were happening here? There would be outrage. It's testament, then, to the infinite kindness of the Italian people. Yet even their patience is limited. The Italian government has now declared that if something doesn't change soon, they will be forced to close their ports and impound rescue vessels.

This is not a decision anyone would take lightly, but the Italians have no choice. For years, they've been asking for help from Brussels. And for years, their pleas have fallen on deaf ears.

Yet one of the main justifications for the EU — bandied around at every turn by the Remain camp during the Referendum — is that it acts as a socio-economic unifier for the many disparate countries that fall under its umbrella. That its preservation is a vital safeguard against the divisions that tore Europe apart in the 20th century.

Without it, we are endlessly told, Europe would descend into chaos.

In fact, the opposite is true. It is precisely because of the spectacular incompetence and PC-induced paralysis of Juncker and co. that Italy is now forced to face alone a humanitarian crisis of almost Biblical proportions.

Brussels has repeatedly failed to mobilise any sort of united search and rescue operation. It hasn't even been able to stop member states such as Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic (who are not exactly shy about enjoying their own rights to freedom of movement) from refusing point-blank to take a single migrant. Oh, all right, the Czech Republic has taken 12. Out of more than half a million.

France and Switzerland, too, have turned their faces away from their neighbour, closing their borders to migrants from Italy; and yesterday Austria moved to do the same.

None of which is of any use to poor Italy. Nor will it help alleviate tensions on the ground there. Many in the already-impoverished South are becoming resentful of the newcomers — 70 per cent of whom, as the United Nations admitted this week, are not refugees, but economic migrants.

But Italy, where I spent much of my childhood, is no land of milk and honey today. Calabria, for example, a magnet for the people-smugglers, has the highest youth unemployment in Europe, at 65 per cent. The one thing they really don't need is even more young men hanging around street corners.

Little wonder that every Italian I talk to can speak of nothing else. They feel angry, frustrated, threatened. They see their culture being eroded, their country betrayed by the well-fed suits in Brussels.

Dissatisfaction is spreading, dark forces are on the rise again. And for a country where the memory of Mussolini is never far beneath the surface, this is not a good omen.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:57 am

For years the Daily Mail have been telling us that being in the EU means we cannot control our borders. It’s an outrage that we are not allowed to close our borders! OMG THE MIGRANTS, A FLOOD OF MIGRANTS!!!

And then they completely undermine their own argument with that piece.

France has closed it’s borders to migrants from Italy? Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic are not taking any of the migrants? But I thought the Daily Mail and the likes of Farage told us that the EU meant we would be “swamped” by migrants that we would be powerless to stop? That being members of the EU would mean we would be forced to let people just wander in?

It’s an odd day when the Daily Mail are calling for the EU member states to share out the migrants fairly. Are they also asking for some to come to Britain?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:01 am

KK wrote:
Daily Mail wrote:Dissatisfaction is spreading, dark forces are on the rise again. And for a country where the memory of Mussolini is never far beneath the surface, this is not a good omen.


Dark forces are on the rise (stoked up by the likes of who?) and the memory of Mussolini (a friend of your old owner Lord Rothermere)....

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:02 am

Dissatisfaction is spreading, dark forces are on the rise again. And for a country where the memory of Mussolini is never far beneath the surface, this is not a good omen.


Well, we all know how good the Mail are at spotting a fascist.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:15 am

Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.

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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:35 am

BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


coz y shud i pay 4 dem africkans 2 ave beter lyfes?????

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit
by Return_of_the_STAR » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:55 am

BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


Ideally the world would tackle this together but it's just not going to happen. The world could vastly improve life for those in the poorer countries but we won't do it. It's similar to how the EU has improved conditions in many Eastern European countries but the difference between say Slovakia or Estonia and the African continent is light years apart. The undertaken would require something drastic. With the current world economic model I don't think it could be afforded.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:44 am

Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


coz y shud i pay 4 dem africkans 2 ave beter lyfes?????

:lol:

:x :cry:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


Ideally the world would tackle this together but it's just not going to happen. The world could vastly improve life for those in the poorer countries but we won't do it. It's similar to how the EU has improved conditions in many Eastern European countries but the difference between say Slovakia or Estonia and the African continent is light years apart. The undertaken would require something drastic. With the current world economic model I don't think it could be afforded.

We are one of the biggest contributors to the causes. True it needs other countries to step up too but we really need to be leading along with the likes of France.

If we stopped selling weapons, stopped interfering in other countries politics and made a serious effort to slow global warming then it will reduce the future affects of refugees.

There's going to be more and more people displaced over the next few decades, and now we have the beginnings of boats travelling around to stop these people or any aid efforts associated https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -boats-med

It wont be long until we have a fleet of these that are armed that just shoot any one that they find in the waters :fp:

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:49 am

BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


coz y shud i pay 4 dem africkans 2 ave beter lyfes?????

:lol:

:x :cry:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


Ideally the world would tackle this together but it's just not going to happen. The world could vastly improve life for those in the poorer countries but we won't do it. It's similar to how the EU has improved conditions in many Eastern European countries but the difference between say Slovakia or Estonia and the African continent is light years apart. The undertaken would require something drastic. With the current world economic model I don't think it could be afforded.

We are one of the biggest contributors to the causes. True it needs other countries to step up too but we really need to be leading along with the likes of France.

If we stopped selling weapons, stopped interfering in other countries politics and made a serious effort to slow global warming then it will reduce the future affects of refugees.

There's going to be more and more people displaced over the next few decades, and now we have the beginnings of boats travelling around to stop these people or any aid efforts associated https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -boats-med

It wont be long until we have a fleet of these that are armed that just shoot any one that they find in the waters :fp:


yeh but dey iz ekomonic mygrunts n shud b in dere cuntrys not in r cuntry!!!!

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:04 am

Ironically the country overall would probably be better off financially, and have a lot more freedom. It would be the politicians, arms traders and fossil fuel industry that wouldn't be as rich any more.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:06 am

BID0 wrote:Ironically the country overall would probably be better off financially, and have a lot more freedom. It would be the politicians, arms traders and fossil fuel industry that wouldn't be as rich any more.


I agree, but those are the people with the power and combined with the owners of the media they will make damn sure that nothing ever changes.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:24 pm

Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Ironically the country overall would probably be better off financially, and have a lot more freedom. It would be the politicians, arms traders and fossil fuel industry that wouldn't be as rich any more.


I agree, but those are the people with the power and combined with the owners of the media they will make damn sure that nothing ever changes.


In a nutshell, the situation is strawberry floated and will probably never change as along as human greed exists. It will take something huge for people to bypass greed.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:44 pm

Squinty wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Ironically the country overall would probably be better off financially, and have a lot more freedom. It would be the politicians, arms traders and fossil fuel industry that wouldn't be as rich any more.


I agree, but those are the people with the power and combined with the owners of the media they will make damn sure that nothing ever changes.


In a nutshell, the situation is strawberry floated and will probably never change as along as human greed exists. It will take something huge for people to bypass greed.

We will get to see the best of humanity in the near future when things get worse and worse around the world :toot:

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit
by captain red dog » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:30 pm

BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


coz y shud i pay 4 dem africkans 2 ave beter lyfes?????

:lol:

:x :cry:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


Ideally the world would tackle this together but it's just not going to happen. The world could vastly improve life for those in the poorer countries but we won't do it. It's similar to how the EU has improved conditions in many Eastern European countries but the difference between say Slovakia or Estonia and the African continent is light years apart. The undertaken would require something drastic. With the current world economic model I don't think it could be afforded.

We are one of the biggest contributors to the causes. True it needs other countries to step up too but we really need to be leading along with the likes of France.

If we stopped selling weapons, stopped interfering in other countries politics and made a serious effort to slow global warming then it will reduce the future affects of refugees.

There's going to be more and more people displaced over the next few decades, and now we have the beginnings of boats travelling around to stop these people or any aid efforts associated https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -boats-med

It wont be long until we have a fleet of these that are armed that just shoot any one that they find in the waters :fp:

Leading along with the likes of France? Arguably France are as much responsible for the issues in North Africa as the UK is.

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BID0
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PostRe: Brexit
by BID0 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:00 pm

captain red dog wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


coz y shud i pay 4 dem africkans 2 ave beter lyfes?????

:lol:

:x :cry:

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


Ideally the world would tackle this together but it's just not going to happen. The world could vastly improve life for those in the poorer countries but we won't do it. It's similar to how the EU has improved conditions in many Eastern European countries but the difference between say Slovakia or Estonia and the African continent is light years apart. The undertaken would require something drastic. With the current world economic model I don't think it could be afforded.

We are one of the biggest contributors to the causes. True it needs other countries to step up too but we really need to be leading along with the likes of France.

If we stopped selling weapons, stopped interfering in other countries politics and made a serious effort to slow global warming then it will reduce the future affects of refugees.

There's going to be more and more people displaced over the next few decades, and now we have the beginnings of boats travelling around to stop these people or any aid efforts associated https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -boats-med

It wont be long until we have a fleet of these that are armed that just shoot any one that they find in the waters :fp:

Leading along with the likes of France? Arguably France are as much responsible for the issues in North Africa as the UK is.

Well they're pushing the climate agreement and taking refugees in so they're a few steps ahead of us there. In contrast we pretend no problems exist outside of our little group of islands and hope the problems resolve themselves.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rocsteady » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:04 pm

Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:Why don't we try and tackle the issues that are causing immigration instead of banning it :fp: if people want to get somewhere they'll find a way eventually. If you go to the root causes of the issue then people won't have to leave their life behind in the hope of having somewhere for them and their family to survive.


coz y shud i pay 4 dem africkans 2 ave beter lyfes?????

Charity should start at home.

Not my home, of course. Lazy feckless shysters. But, y'know, someone's home. Someone white & British. A veteran who I'd normally ignore in the street or something I dunno.

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