Brexit

Knoyleo wrote:

Moggy wrote:

jawafour wrote:

Moggy wrote:Which way did you vote in the referendum Jawa?

I'm comfortable to have a chat about politics, Moggy, but I never reveal who I have voted for in any electoral vote or referendum. I will say that I'm not one for sticking with a particular party, though - I make my decision afresh each time.

This isn't about a political party though.

It's hard to have a conversation like this with somebody who is just sitting on the middle of the fence and refusing to lean either way.

Like it or not, this is a massively polarising issue - it's not something you can debate while saying "I can see both sides!".

It's polarising at a national level, but surely you can imagine there were people who were genuinely torn over how to vote?

Moggy wrote:

jawafour wrote:

Moggy wrote:...It's hard to have a conversation like this with somebody who is just sitting on the middle of the fence and refusing to lean either way...

I'd have to disagree on that point, Moggy. I wonder if - and this is only a feeling from reading through the thread - some folk may be seeking to "prove" that people who voted the opposite to them were "wrong"? For me, I was pretty comfortable with either outcome in the referendum; there were aspects that I liked and disliked for both options.

I feel that I can join in the discussion in terms of sharing my views on these things without having to be a fervent supporter of either option. The points that I have gotten involved with so far - such as UK gaining the ability to be fully responsible for the laws of its countries, and for beng able to determine its own trade deals with countries world-wide - I am in favour of.

You can disagree of course, but how can you debate somebody who doesn't seem to care either way and who will not say what side they came down on at the actual vote?

"Hey Jawa, what do you think of EU citizens rights?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the economy?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the risk to trade?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

Errkal wrote:Jawa is actually David Davis

jawafour wrote:

Moggy wrote:You can disagree of course, but how can you debate somebody who doesn't seem to care either way and who will not say what side they came down on at the actual vote?

"Hey Jawa, what do you think of EU citizens rights?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the economy?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

"Hey Jawa, what about the risk to trade?"
"I'm sure it'll be fine"

I don't feel that is the case, Moggy - I certainly do care about the issues and, in the past few posts, I've spoken of a few areas that I support. It's not the case that people should like all of the things that the "In" party proposed, nor like all of the things that the "Out" party championed. Although the referendum was a binary decision, it doesn't mean that discussions on the multitude of factors have to be. Just because someone voted a certain way doesn't mean that their views on all the aspects are "right" or "wrong".

CNBC wrote:The dollar dropped 0.77 percent against the euro on Wednesday, hitting its lowest level against the common currency in more than 2 1/2 years.

The euro traded at $1.1852 against the greenback as of 4:10 p.m. in New York. The euro also broke above $1.19 for the first time since Jan. 6, 2015.

"I think this is a combination of negative news out of the U.S. and more positive news out of Europe," said Marc Chandler, global head of currency strategy at Brown Brothers Harriman. "There are lower expectations for tighter monetary policy out of the Federal Reserve and higher expectations for more tightening out of the European Central Bank."

Meanwhile, the Pound to Dollar exchange rate has risen by over 8% in the past 100 days; something that won’t be welcomed by the UK’s exporters but it will certainly be welcomed by the nation’s importers who easily outweigh their exporting counterparts.

The Pound is now at a 10 month high against the Dollar to £1.32 and could be on course to match £1.34, the highest since August 2016.

jawafour wrote:

DML wrote:...Who you going to deal with? Mars? We don't live in isolation and the alternatives are a volatile and untrustworthy USA and China. Surely it's completely unrealistic or and best wishful thinking to expect a stronger economy?

I hope we can reach a trade agreement with the Euro countries, DML - I think it would be in the interests of both parties. But... yes, it will be difficult as both the EU and the UK will want to be viewed as having gained a strong deal. If a deal is struck then I suspect the truth will be somewhere in the middle; both parties may need to cede on a few aspects. Beyond the EU, I would feel positive about tading with both bigger partners (USA, China, India, Canada and Australia) as well as places that perhaps wouldn't immediatley spring to mind, such as the South Americas. I have no experience or great knowledge of the complexities of such deals, but it would seem logical that we could approach them and that they'd be keen to strike up trade.

In the short term though, yeah, I can see us having a bumpy ride.

Moggy wrote:Jawa, I think we view this from a light year away from each other. I like your optimism but I just don't share it.

I'm not so sure, Moggy! Sure, there is no doubt that we have differing views on the possible success (or not!) of the change but, in terms of the values you've spoken of, they would appear to tie up with mine pretty much.

Anyway, I rarely (almost never) dip my ties into these threads and, whilst it has been cool to talk over some of the stuff, I will call it a night for now .

Squinty wrote:This seems like a witch-hunt and I'm not sure I like it.