Brexit

PostRe: Brexit by **BID0** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:42 pm

Lucien wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:So what views don't they align?

And before you even think of using the word "Immigration" let me just stop you right there.

The UK has always had complete control of immigration from outside of the EU, nothing will change there regardless of our position in or out of the EU. If anything, outside of the EU the UK will have to relax immigration rules for people from outside of the EU as it's almost certainly going to be a condition of any trade deal with countries like India and China. India has long wanted to make it easier for its citizens to come to the UK and trade negotiations are the perfect place for that.

When it comes to immigration from within the EU, the UK (And indeed all EU member states) do have individual powers to put controls on this, it's just that successive governments of the last 30 years have made a conscious decision not to use those powers, most likely because EU immigration is a convenient boogeyman to point at for government failings/ineptitude.

As for Freedom of Movement? It still seems to genuinely shock people to learn that this never actually applied to the UK. The UK is not, and never has been, part of the Schengen Area. Anyone coming into the UK from the EU has to go through passport/border control the same as anyone else.

I'm for immigration, but not uncontrolled immigration. I want people from any country to have an equal chance to come here, rather than our current policy which favours EU nationals. If the government wants uncontrolled immigration from other areas I'll oppose that too.

You say at the end freedom of movement doesn't apply to the UK. It's an EU directive that does apply to us so I've no idea why you think it wouldn't? It seems to me you're confusing freedom of movement with having border control checks.

Laga is correct. The UK government decides how many EU and nonEU immigrants can enter the country. That's the same exact government that's now got more power to do as it likes.

PostRe: Brexit by **DML** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:45 pm

Denster wrote:Just to clarify - are you actually saying you wish he'd died?

Of course not you nitwit! :lol:

PostRe: Brexit by **Denster** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:22 pm

DML wrote:
Denster wrote:Just to clarify - are you actually saying you wish he'd died?

Of course not you nitwit!

PostRe: Brexit by **Errkal** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:25 pm

Lucien wrote:
BID0 wrote:Laga is correct. The UK government decides how many EU and nonEU immigrants can enter the country. That's the same exact government that's now got more power to do as it likes.

So you're saying if the UK wanted to only allow 50,000 EU citizens into the country in a year it could do so? Do you have any links or such to back that up?

I'm not sure they can set a numerical limit, but they certainly could set requirements of say having a job or means to support themselves like Belgium does. Which makes it all fine as you know people coming are contributing which is sort of the point of controls

PostRe: Brexit by **Alvin Flummux** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:37 pm

The UK government could set limits before Brexit too, not being part of Schengen and all, but nobody talks about that.

PostRe: Brexit by **DML** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:45 pm

I think its a complex issue, but we managed to keep the pound so I don't think it would have been off the table.

PostRe: Brexit by **BID0** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:04 pm

Yup it has a host of other things linked to it (like trade), so limiting numbers entering the UK would not only adversely affect immigration, it would also adversely affect trade. Which is the exact problem the UK faces now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... t-citizens

We are able to deny entry "with good reason" currently. I believe other countries such as Germany also have this option too.

If you want to travel out to Calais and look at the UK border with your own eyes. We also have a police station out there that detains people at the border we choose check/not to let in.

And as has been pointed out already, the nonEU numbers are well above the government immigration "targets" so there's no reason to suspect the EU numbers will be any different after this has all gone through.

PostRe: Brexit by **Oblomov Boblomov** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:42 pm

Karl wrote:If May has achieved anything it's to make me nostalgic for the good old days of Dave & George.

Dave and Nick :wub:

PostRe: Brexit by **Rocsteady** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:56 pm

Happier times.

PostRe: Brexit by **Knoyleo** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:05 pm

PostRe: Brexit by **Hexx** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:45 pm

May's speech is pretty empty with lots fo soundbites...part of my thinks she's building up to an early withdrawl . Let's make it a clean break and decide our future together with a clean slate"

PostRe: Brexit by **Errkal** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:46 pm

That is why the UK has never “entirely felt at home being in the EU”.

The EU never felt “an integral part of our national story”, she says.

strawberry float off you gooseberry fool faced banana split.

PostRe: Brexit by **Hexx** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:49 pm

Errkal wrote:
That is why the UK has never “entirely felt at home being in the EU”.

The EU never felt “an integral part of our national story”, she says.

strawberry float off you gooseberry fool faced banana split.

twitter.com/IanDunt/status/911224311721156609

Hard Irish Border incoming...they've learned nothing

This is just pandering to the Brexiteers - "it's all the EU's fault for not giving in to our outrageous demands"

PostRe: Brexit by **Hexx** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:51 pm

"May says she is not pretending that you can have all the advantages of the single market with none of the disadvantages.
But she wants to find a way of holding them in a new balance, she says.
The question is not how we bring regulations closer. The question is what we do when one side want to make changes.
She says forcing the UK to choose between an EEA-type model or a Canada-type model would be unimaginative. It would not be the best way to proceed, she says.
She says going for the EEA model [the Norway model] would not work. Eventually there would be objections.
But the Canada option would be a significant restriction on our market access, and that would benefit neither economy.

We can do so much better than this."

Notice she's not saying what we want (other that the continued hints at the moon on a stick deal the EU has already vetoed out of hand)

The UK doesn't know what it wants but it's entirely the EU's responsibility to make sure things work out ok and the UK doesn't suffer seems to be the message

PostRe: Brexit by **Moggy** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:51 pm

Errkal wrote:
That is why the UK has never “entirely felt at home being in the EU”.

The EU never felt “an integral part of our national story”, she says.

strawberry float off you gooseberry fool faced banana split.

She really is. She keeps saying what the British people want, but she’s ignoring that all the referendum showed was that we are split 3 ways.

PostRe: Brexit by **Hexx** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:53 pm

"May says dispute resolution after Brexit should not be left to the ECJ, or to the UK courts. An alternative mechanism is needed, she says"

WTF??

PostRe: Brexit by **Hexx** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:55 pm

twitter.com/WomaninHavana/status/911226502670438400

Jesus.

No wonder The EU/Barnier have said they'll be able to respond in the 15 minutes to this

PostRe: Brexit by **Squinty** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:00 pm

The bits that I've read of this speech......

Seems to be just a reiteration of give us cake.

PostRe: Brexit by **Hexx** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:01 pm

Looks like the 2 year transition "as now" for money up to 2020 leaks where right

Oh but we'll still register EU individuals coming...

PostRe: Brexit by **Rex Kramer** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:03 pm

Hexx wrote:"May says dispute resolution after Brexit should not be left to the ECJ, or to the UK courts. An alternative mechanism is needed, she says"

WTF??

Doesn't Norway and/or Switzerland have some kind of alternative to the ECJ for resolution of stuff?

EDIT: EFTA Court but not sure if that's the same as May is talking about.

Brexit

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