Brexit

Our best bits.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Gideon
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PostRe: Brexit
by Gideon » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:58 pm

Amber Rudd’s the last person we want taking the Tory leadership. She may have nearly lost her seat but she’s got infinite rerolls. OP as strawberry float.

FFS worst top-of-page post ever.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:38 am

In totally unsurprising news

Government responded:

As Parliament agreed, we will not publish anything that would undermine our ability to negotiate the best deal for Britain.

The Department for Exiting the European Union, working with officials across Government, is undertaking a wide range of analysis covering the entirety of the UK economy in order to support negotiations. We are looking at over 50 sectors as well as areas of cross-cutting regulations.

Stakeholder engagement is a central element of our plan to build a national consensus around our negotiating position. DExEU Ministers are working closely with colleagues across Government to ensure that we are speaking to a wide range of sectors.

The Government is committed to negotiating a deep and special partnership with the European Union and is conducting a wide-ranging programme of analysis. It would not be appropriate, however, to publish details that could undermine the UK's negotiating position with the EU, and Parliament has voted not to publish such details.

Parliament will have a say on the final deal we achieve with the European Union as we will put that deal to a vote in both Houses before it comes into force. We will, of course, continue to support Parliament in its scrutiny role throughout the negotiating stage. It is not standard practice to provide an ongoing commentary on internal analytical work that is being carried out within government. On 7 December 2016 the House of Commons voted in favour of an amended Opposition motion which stated that there should be no disclosure of material that could reasonably be judged to damage the UK in any negotiations to withdraw from the European Union after Article 50 has been triggered.

Department for Exiting the European Union


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/200634

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:44 am

Hexx wrote:In totally unsurprising news

there should be no disclosure of material that could reasonably be judged to damage the UK in any negotiations to withdraw from the European Union after Article 50 has been triggered.


There’s no need to release anything as that pretty much confirms just how bad things are going to be. :lol:

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Camp Freddie
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PostRe: Brexit
by Camp Freddie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:41 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/brexit-transition-period-final-eu-trade-deal-theresa-may

Theresa May has signalled there will be no transitional period to prevent a “cliff-edge” Brexit unless the UK manages to agree a deal with the EU on their future relationship.

The prime minister has been under pressure to help businesses plan for the future by agreeing a time-limited transitional period by Christmas, but she told MPs that this “implementation phase” could only be agreed when a trade deal had been struck.

“The point of the implementation period is to put in place the practical changes necessary to move to the future partnership, and in order to have that you need to know what that future partnership is going to be,” she said.


No chance of a trade deal being agreed in this time.


There's a lot of semantics to unpack in all the Brexit comments.

Tautologically, an "implementation period" requires a general agreement on what is to be implemented. I think there are WTO rules about implementation periods that mean they can't just be a handwaving "give us a few years to sort something out". Having said that, we're in uncharted territory since we're moving out of a trade deal rather than the more standard practice of implementing one that replaces the default 'most favoured nation' status.

What we're actually wanting is an extension on the Art.50 deadline to allow an agreement to be done. We aren't even close to starting the negotiations on the nature of our future relationship, let alone the specific trade deal that covers that relationship. No way we'll have everything sorted by March 2019.
Unfortunately, asking for that would be poison to leave supporters and the right-wing press - and it also requires unanimous approval by the EU27 - some of whom will no doubt demand something in return.

Regarding the news on Davis's 50-sector economic report, it's funny how the EU don't worry too much about publishing their impact assessments.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/595374/IPOL_STU(2017)595374_EN.pdf
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/602058/IPOL_STU(2017)602058_EN.pdf
One might almost conclude that the refusal to publish implies that the UK assessments of Brexit are of a rather negative character.

EDIT: apologies for the quote fuckup. I assume it's a new/resitricted/junior member issue.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:47 pm

Camp Freddie wrote:EDIT: apologies for the quote fuckup. I assume it's a new/resitricted/junior member issue.

Fixed the post for ya :toot:

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:52 pm

Garth wrote:
Camp Freddie wrote:EDIT: apologies for the quote fuckup. I assume it's a new/resitricted/junior member issue.

Fixed the post for ya :toot:

(Just to clarify, you have to make 10 posts before you can use most BBcodes. It's just a little security/antispam thing.)

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:57 pm

I better turn that on again then :slol:

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That
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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:58 pm

Did you turn it off? :slol: Well, it's OK, let's see how it goes.

This is the top-tier staffsmanship you just wouldn't get on GAF ;)

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:20 pm

Moggy wrote:
Hexx wrote:In totally unsurprising news

there should be no disclosure of material that could reasonably be judged to damage the UK in any negotiations to withdraw from the European Union after Article 50 has been triggered.


There’s no need to release anything as that pretty much confirms just how bad things are going to be. :lol:


I guess the high courts can decide on it then.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:52 pm

A Eurosceptic Tory MP has been accused of compiling a "hit list" of university professors who teach Brexit courses.

Chris Heaton-Harris has written to universities asking for names of such professors and the content of their lectures.

A lecturers' union said the letter had the "acrid whiff of McCarthyism" - and Tory peer Lord Patten called it "idiotic and offensive".

Mr Heaton-Harris said he believed in "open" debate on Brexit.

The MP for Daventry tweeted: "To be absolutely clear, I believe in free speech in our universities and in having an open and vigorous debate on Brexit."

The Guardian revealed he wrote to university vice-chancellors at the start of this month asking for the names of professors "involved in the teaching of European affairs, with particular reference to Brexit".

The MP's letter also asks for a "copy of the syllabus" and online links to lectures on Brexit.

Mr Heaton-Harris is a government whip and a member of the pro-Brexit European Research Group of Conservative MPs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41735839

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:dread:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:02 pm

Moggy wrote:
A Eurosceptic Tory MP has been accused of compiling a "hit list" of university professors who teach Brexit courses.

Chris Heaton-Harris has written to universities asking for names of such professors and the content of their lectures.

A lecturers' union said the letter had the "acrid whiff of McCarthyism" - and Tory peer Lord Patten called it "idiotic and offensive".

Mr Heaton-Harris said he believed in "open" debate on Brexit.

The MP for Daventry tweeted: "To be absolutely clear, I believe in free speech in our universities and in having an open and vigorous debate on Brexit."

The Guardian revealed he wrote to university vice-chancellors at the start of this month asking for the names of professors "involved in the teaching of European affairs, with particular reference to Brexit".

The MP's letter also asks for a "copy of the syllabus" and online links to lectures on Brexit.

Mr Heaton-Harris is a government whip and a member of the pro-Brexit European Research Group of Conservative MPs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41735839

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:dread:

Yeah this doesn't smell of an attempt to censor education at all. No siree not one bit.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:45 pm

twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/922832680756174848



twitter.com/scullyp/status/922824988104839168


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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit
by Tineash » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:02 pm

Hexx wrote:

twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/922832680756174848



twitter.com/scullyp/status/922824988104839168



Pair this with Jo Johnson wagging his finger at students and lecturing them on free speech, and it's a really strawberry floating bad look.

"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing
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Hypes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hypes » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:33 pm

Well of course universities are pro-remain. People there are educated

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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:13 pm

Yeah, there's a pretty obvious explanation for why so many academics are liberally minded. If the situation were reversed I definitely wouldn't be drawing attention to it... The fact that the most educated people in the country tend to support your opponents doesn't make you look good.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:23 pm

I'm not even sure if there's a reasonable scenario for obtaining that information. Seems a bit banana splitish.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:49 pm

How's this for a tonal shift...

ABC News wrote:Europe should preserve its cultural heritage, EU's Tusk says

The European Union must do more to defend its external borders against migrants, EU chief Donald Tusk said Tuesday, describing Europe as a "cultural community" whose heritage must be preserved.

While the president of the European Council insisted that Europeans are not superior to other peoples, his rhetoric of cultural preservation echoed in some ways the language of populist politicians winning support across Europe with calls to keep migrants from settling on the continent.

"We are a cultural community, which doesn't mean that we are better or worse — we are simply different from the outside world," Tusk said in an address to the European Parliament in Strasbourg, France.

"Our openness and tolerance cannot mean walking away from protecting our heritage," Tusk added. "We have the right and obligation to care for what distinguishes us from other cultures — not in order to be against someone, but to be ourselves. Without a feeling of superiority, but with a feeling of justified pride."

Europe is deeply divided over the issue of migration, with leaders like German Chancellor Angela Merkel who initially called for relatively welcoming policies now retreating from those positions, and right-wing populists warning that large Muslim communities threaten to erode Europe's Christian profile.

The leading proponent of that view has been Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who erected razor wire fences in 2015 at a time when the largest numbers of people fleeing war and poverty in the Middle East and Africa poured into Europe. He has often described Muslim migrants as invaders who threaten Europe's cultural identity.

That view has resonated in many places including Tusk's homeland, Poland, where he was previously prime minister.

Tusk said the EU must now do much more to protect the bloc's external borders.

"Our duty is to protect them," Tusk said. "The migration crisis has made us aware, with full force, of the need to rebuild effective control of our external borders while the aggressive behavior of certain third countries, and the destabilization around Europe, has made us aware of the need to defend our territory."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... e-50675410

Now, had Merkal and company had this viewpoint last year we wouldn't be leaving the EU and Cameron would still be PM.

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: Brexit
by Alvin Flummux » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:50 pm

Where was he when the Romans were systematically destroying Celtic culture across western Europe? :x

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:02 am

As very humorously pointed out on Sky News tonight...

Daily Mail, pro Brexit supporting newspaper wrote:Michael Bloomberg added: 'I did say that I thought it was the single stupidest thing any country has ever done but then we Trumped it.'

However, he told AFP in London at the opening of his new building that the city rill remain as the 'financial centre of Europe' despite Brexit.

Guardian, anti-Brexit supporting newspaper wrote:Bloomberg said London was the centre of Europe but warned that was “not going to be as true any more” due to Brexit.

Yes, he literally changed what he said depending on the outlet he was talking to, the narrative changing to suit what the readership wants to hear. Just remember that when you listen to certain self-interested, self-serving individuals and organisations...

Always worth attempting to hunt down a full quote, rather than snippets of it.

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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit
by Tineash » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:11 am

It would be great if the entire western world wasn't shit-our-pants, blow-up-the-world, elect-a-fascist terrified of immigrants. That would be strawberry floating swell.

"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing

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