Brexit

PostRe: Brexit by **Squinty** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:55 pm

Those David Davis comics never fail to make me laugh.

I'm glad the border issue seems to be stealing the limelight at the moment. It just highlights how strawberry floating stupid this referendum was and still is.

PostRe: Brexit by **Lagamorph** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:07 pm

twitter.com/eucopresident/status/934102860173926401

twitter.com/Simon_Nixon/status/934148183000743939

PostRe: Brexit by **DML** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:57 pm

Lucien wrote:
Squinty wrote:I'm glad the border issue seems to be stealing the limelight at the moment. It just highlights how strawberry floating stupid this referendum was and still is.

You can't allow Northern Ireland/Ireland problems to dictate the entire political system of the UK. They both just need to get their gooseberry fool together.

I find this comment staggering.

Northern Ireland IS the UK. They are one if us, it is not 'they'!

PostRe: Brexit by **Meep** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:36 pm

We in NI voted to remain. This 'gooseberry fool' is all yours.

Even considering the referendum result, there was no vote to leave the custom union. That is a political choice by the Conservative party because they have chosen to interpret the vote in a specific way, mainly because of the beliefs of a certain wing of their MPs rather than any evidence from polls or rational analysis. We cannot be held responsible for the poor choices of the tories.

PostRe: Brexit by **DML** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:44 pm

Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Squinty wrote:I'm glad the border issue seems to be stealing the limelight at the moment. It just highlights how strawberry floating stupid this referendum was and still is.

You can't allow Northern Ireland/Ireland problems to dictate the entire political system of the UK. They both just need to get their gooseberry fool together.

I find this comment staggering.

Northern Ireland IS the UK. They are one if us, it is not 'they'!

I know it's part of the UK. What's staggering about what I said? If some people in Manchester threatened to become terrorists if we got rid of the House of Lords I'd want Manchester to get its gooseberry fool together too, rather than keep the HoL due to that city's problems.

Edit: If Squinty's point was the government should have considered the NI/Ireland issue (and solutions to it) way before now then I agree with that. If his point was we shouldn't have had a referendum because of what could happen in NI/Ireland if we left the EU, then I don't.

May I suggest having a referendum without considering those consequences is ridiculously stupid?

PostRe: Brexit by **Meep** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:53 pm

Teresa May could still announce that the UK wants to remain within the customs union, as is what majority of the electorate want and as is best for the economy of the UK and the stability of the British Isles. Unfortunately, staying in power is more important to her than any of that.

PostRe: Brexit by **Benzin** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:57 pm

Years of political issues, all Ireland needed to do is have a nice cup of tea and get their gooseberry fool together and we can have a complete united pair of GB and one Ireland.

It's in the best interests of both the Republic and Northern Ireland to have a little trouble with a border, yet unsurprisingly the EU and Ireland want the people who are causing the problem to come up with an actual solution. How weird.

PostRe: Brexit by **DML** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:01 am

I maintain Hard Brexit as a concept for this country is likely going to be a myth - it's too illogical even for May. We are already seen concessions being made by the Conservatives and that will continue until our 'exit' or until the Tories crumble.

I oppose Brexit on the basis less that I disagree but because it makes zero sense. To suggest unelected MEPs is any different or worse (or anymore powerful on our politics) from The House Of Lords or our own political system is quite simply baloney.

Every single sign so far has proved with pretty much 100 percent accuracy how true that is.

PostRe: Brexit by **Lex-Man** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:34 am

Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:I oppose Brexit on the basis less that I disagree but because it makes zero sense. To suggest unelected MEPs is any different or worse (or anymore powerful on our politics) from The House Of Lords or our own political system is quite simply baloney.

The MEPs are elected but the Commission isn't and that is worse than the HoL, and much harder to reform. You can be for or against the EU political system but it is imo "worse" than the UK's looking at it as objectively as possible.

But the HoL aren't elected either. UK political parties get to select some, other are selected as religious leaders and then their are people who get membership through a fluke of birth. Also members service for life.

The commission are selected from a short list that is ok'd by the leaders of each country in the EU and then they are voted on by members of the EU parliament after the parliament gets the opportunity to ask questions about the applicants views and plans. Then they only serve a fixed term. It's pretty much the same way as the US works, the president gets to select people for senior rules, like running the FTC, and then congress gets to decide whether they are a suitable candidate or not.

Is the US system not democratic?

PostRe: Brexit by **Lex-Man** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:04 am

Lucien wrote:
lex-man wrote:
Lucien wrote:
DML wrote:I oppose Brexit on the basis less that I disagree but because it makes zero sense. To suggest unelected MEPs is any different or worse (or anymore powerful on our politics) from The House Of Lords or our own political system is quite simply baloney.

The MEPs are elected but the Commission isn't and that is worse than the HoL, and much harder to reform. You can be for or against the EU political system but it is imo "worse" than the UK's looking at it as objectively as possible.

But the HoL aren't elected either. UK political parties get to select some, other are selected as religious leaders and then their are people who get membership through a fluke of birth. Also members service for life.

The commission are selected from a short list that is ok'd by the leaders of each country in the EU and then they are voted on by members of the EU parliament after the parliament gets the opportunity to ask questions about the applicants views and plans. Then they only serve a fixed term. It's pretty much the same way as the US works, the president gets to select people for senior rules, like running the FTC, and then congress gets to decide whether they are a suitable candidate or not.

Is the US system not democratic?

I hate the HoL, but the Commission proposes laws and the MEPs can't, which is worse than the House of Lords/UK Parliament setup imo, and harder to change (I'm not sure how you would change it).

I don't really know much about the US system: would want to know more before I commented on it.

Members of the HoL can propose laws, although it's unlikely they'll actually make it into law. Also a large part of UK is written and created by civil servants and think tanks. If you're rich enough you can actually pay EY (formerly Ernst and young) to write UK tax law specifically tailored to save you money. Listen to the Private Eye's podcast for details.

In the EU the parliament gets to shape the legislation after it's been drafted and all the countries have to sign off on the legislation before it becomes law, so the elected bodies involved gets lots of input anyway. They also get a large say into who goes into the commission so in my view it's a better system than the HoL.

PostRe: Brexit by **Lex-Man** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:52 am

Lucien wrote:
lex-man wrote:Members of the HoL can propose laws, although it's unlikely they'll actually make it into law. Also a large part of UK is written and created by civil servants and think tanks. If you're rich enough you can actually pay EY (formerly Ernst and young) to write UK tax law specifically tailored to save you money. Listen to the Private Eye's podcast for details.

I may do that!

lex-man wrote:In the EU the parliament gets to shape the legislation after it's been drafted and all the countries have to sign off on the legislation before it becomes law, so the elected bodies involved gets lots of input anyway. They also get a large say into who goes into the commission so in my view it's a better system than the HoL.

I believe the Commission still has final say on MEP amendments and MEPs can't propose changes to passed laws; and I'm sure it's majority voting of some sort when it comes to the countries voting laws through (as opposed to all countries needing to agree).

That's cool if you prefer the EU system. I think the least we can say is the better system is debatable.

Agreement needs to be reached between the commission and parliament on any amendments. Changes to EU existing EU law can be made by either a national parliament, the EU parliament or the EU commission.

PostRe: Brexit by **Moggy** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:25 am

twitter.com/far_right_watch/status/933835115247079424

PostRe: Brexit by **Errkal** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:32 am

PostRe: Brexit by **Lagamorph** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:44 am

Seems it's now expected that the Irish government is going to collapse as it's believed the government will lose a no confidence vote on Tuesday. This is likely to lead to a general election some time in December. So that's probably going to put the brakes on talks progressing even in the unlikely event of the UK government actually coming up with a solution to the Irish border question.

PostRe: Brexit by **Hypes** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:14 am

See, this is what happens when you try and stop the will of the people

PostRe: Brexit by **Tineash** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:28 am

This is what happens when every aspect of Brexit is run according to what's thought (wrongly! at every strawberry floating turn!) to be most beneficial for the Conservative party.

PostRe: Brexit by **Blue Eyes** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:28 am

Moggy wrote:

twitter.com/far_right_watch/status/933835115247079424

The amount of banana splits not getting this in the comments below is staggering.

PostRe: Brexit by **Moggy** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:29 am

strawberry float the EU, we’ll trade with the Commonwealth!

Australia has criticised the UK's post-Brexit trade plans to split quotas of food imports from around the world.

EU rules allow for a certain amount of goods to be brought in from countries outside of the Union without charging full tariffs.

After Brexit, the UK and EU want to split these quotas, based on where the goods are mostly consumed.

But Australian trade minister Steven Ciobo said it would impose unacceptable restrictions on their exports.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The point is that you have a choice about where you place your quota at the moment.

"Therefore, given that you could put it in the UK or you could put it into continental Europe, why would we accept a proposition that would see a decline in the quota available because of the Brexit decision?"

Dave Harrison, from Beef and Lamb New Zealand, agreed that its finances could be hit hard if they were not allowed to choose where to import more or less of their products.

He told Today: "We understand that Brexit causes a lot of difficulties for the European governments, but we don't think third countries should have to take a hit in terms of their negotiated legal rights as a result of that."

Shanker Singham, of The Legatum Institute, said the UK should talk to other countries about trade directly.

He added: "We should be going to them and saying we have the ability - once we take up our chair at the WTO [World Trade Organisation] - to do trade agreements with you that will include a certain amount of liberalisation, depending on what you are prepared to give us.

"But if you damage us on the way to reclaiming our seat on the WTO, we are not going to be able to do those deals with you."

The US, Brazil and Canada are also said to have their doubts about the new deal, believing it could hit them financially.

A spokesman for the UK's Department of International Trade told Today the government wanted to minimise disruption to trading relationships and would engage with other members of the World Trade Organisation in an "open, inclusive way".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42121442

Oh.

PostRe: Brexit by **Meep** » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:10 pm

After the UK joined the EU the Commonwealth nations lost a lot trade and were forced to establish new relations, integrating themselves into regional blocks in their own part of the world that make more sense to them. The attitude of some of the leave campaigners is that they can turn the clock back and all of those nations will bend over backwards to accommodate.

I imagine the UK like a guy trying to rebound with an ex-girlfriend.
"Hey, baby? Remember me? Don't worry, I'm back."
"Uh, we dated in uni like twenty years ago."
"Yeah, but I've just had a divorce. So what about it, want to hook up for old time's sake?"
"Sorry... I've sort of moved on since then."

PostRe: Brexit by KK » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:15 pm

twitter.com/hendopolis/status/934536013258657793

Brexit

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

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