Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:11 pm

I think this says a hell of a lot more about you personally DML than it does our flag. It's all in your own head.

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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:12 pm

Flag pride just screams tribalism to me, I don't see the point of it. Maybe because I've grown up in part of the UK where people take it to extremes.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:13 pm

KK wrote:I think this says a hell of a lot more about you personally DML than it does our flag. It's all in your own head.


Its just an opinion. You are welcome to disagree with it.

I'd be surprised if I was the only one who felt that way though.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:21 pm

I think it's incredibly ironic, and sad, that in the UK itself the Union Jack is associated with the likes of the BNP or has other racist connotations with some when abroad and with foreigners it still addons everything under the sun - not necessarily as a representation of the UK itself, or more specifically with just London iconography, but as a much loved piece of fashion and design.

The Cross of Saint George however is a different story.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:26 pm

KK wrote:I think this says a hell of a lot more about you personally DML than it does our flag. It's all in your own head.


It isn’t just him.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rocsteady » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:29 pm

Up here (Scotland) I only see the union Jack flown at Rangers/Hearts games. Which can feck right off.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:30 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...I don’t hate the Union Flag or the Cross of Saint George, but I can’t say I particularly associate with them anymore. Britain is my home, but I don’t feel like it is the place it was just a few years ago and I don’t see it getting much better. And as people seem to want to divide themselves into smaller and smaller communities, I will just stick with being Bristolian.

It's an awful shame that you feel that way, Moggy. You come across as a decent (most of the time ;) ) guy and someone who is accepting of others - and it would be great to see someone like that being proud of the country's flag.

I can understand why, though. As I said, far-right groups seemed to sneakily "claim" the flag for a period of time and so I suspect a lot of people would would, as I did, wonder about the motives behind flying such a flag. But it'd be great if genuinely proud, positive people could claim it back again. As DML mentioned, during the Olympics of 2012 the flag was far more visible and this seemed to be well received.


2012 was a great year, a year where it was possible to feel proud of the country.

Since then we have seen a resurgence in the far right. A referendum that has resulted in stripping people of their identity and risks other people being thrown out of the country. All under the idea of a UKIPPY Britain, a patriotism that isn’t about being happy with what we had but a patriotism that is about cutting ourselves off and dividing people.

I’ve never been much of a flag guy, I am certainly not one now that 37% of the country have decided to take away my infant sons European citizenship.

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PostRe: Brexit
by That » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:37 pm

I am frequently deeply embarrassed by Britain and Britons and British symbols. So I wouldn't currently go out of my way to identify with those things.

You guys are right, things were a bit different in 2012. I don't think I would have taken such a cold stance 6 years ago.

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jawafour
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PostRe: Brexit
by jawafour » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:39 pm

.

Last edited by jawafour on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:40 pm

Karl wrote:I am frequently deeply embarrassed by Britain and Britons and British symbols. So I wouldn't currently go out of my way to identify with those things.

You guys are right, things were a bit different in 2012. I don't think I would have taken such a cold stance 6 years ago.


Yep.

I don’t hate Britain or my fellow Brits (most of them anyway ;) ), but I currently just see Britain as a small island trying to live on its past glories. Which is dangerous as it encourages the far right and damages our chances of getting a proper economic recovery. I see little to celebrate in that and am certainly not going to be flag waving for it.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:44 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...A referendum that has resulted in stripping people of their identity...

I must admit that I hadn't thought of it in that way. Did you see youself more as a citizen of Europe than the UK, Moggy? Personally I always felt that I was a UK citizen with the UK being in a political and economic alliance with Europe. I don't think there's anything "wrong" with either perspective; just a different way of looking at things.


There’s nothing wrong with either perspective, but there’s a big difference in what’s happened. Pre referendum you could be British and ignore being European. Post referendum you are just British with the European side forcibly taken away from you.

I saw myself as a citizen of Britain and Europe, I didn’t see myself as more one than the other. Luckily for me I am still that, I have Irish citizenship that I took after the referendum.

Thanks to Leavers though my wife and son do not not have the option of European citizenship, and I’ll never forgive them for that.

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Hypes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hypes » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:56 pm

Rocsteady wrote:Up here (Scotland) I only see the union Jack flown at Rangers/Hearts games. Which can feck right off.

Because of Sturgeon :x

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sawyerpip
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PostRe: Brexit
by sawyerpip » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:00 pm

Rocsteady wrote:Up here (Scotland) I only see the union Jack flown at Rangers/Hearts games. Which can feck right off.


I don't often see the Union Jack in Wales either.

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Tineash
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PostRe: Brexit
by Tineash » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:23 pm

Caring a lot about flags is a sure-fire sign that you need to stay the strawberry float away from me.

"exceptionally annoying" - TheTurnipKing
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:29 pm

Lucien wrote:
Moggy wrote:Thanks to Leavers though my wife and son do not not have the option of European citizenship, and I’ll never forgive them for that.


That's a dark and sad sentence. I hope you can move past that point. I remember being really annoyed at the outcome of the Scottish referendum for a week and it's like you're stuck in that zone to me, which sounds horrible.


The Scottish referendum didn’t take anything away from you. You were Scottish and British and now you are Scottish and British.

Leave voters took away the European citizenship of my wife and child. Unless something unexpected happens they are not getting that back. What is there to move past?

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Hypes
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hypes » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:39 pm

jawafour wrote:
Moggy wrote:...A referendum that has resulted in stripping people of their identity...

I must admit that I hadn't thought of it in that way. Did you see youself more as a citizen of Europe than the UK, Moggy? Personally I always felt that I was a UK citizen with the UK being in a political and economic alliance with Europe. I don't think there's anything "wrong" with either perspective; just a different way of looking at things.

It's a fact though that we are citizens of the EU, and after Brexit we will not be, so that will have been taken away

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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit
by Meep » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:49 pm

I am a European and am both ethnically and culturally European, as is true for most people in the UK and will continue to be true after Brexit. The unfortunate thing is that the UK will have a less active role in Europe after Brexit both economically and culturally in terms of participating in various projects. I am an Irish national so will hold onto my EU rights, fortunately.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:04 pm

Lucien wrote:
Moggy wrote:Thanks to Leavers though my wife and son do not not have the option of European citizenship, and I’ll never forgive them for that.


That's a dark and sad sentence. I hope you can move past that point. I remember being really annoyed at the outcome of the Scottish referendum for a week and it's like you're stuck in that zone to me, which sounds horrible.


Working and living in Europe in my job is a real option that your vote stripped from me. There's no moving beyond that, I just think your view is misformed, you're lost me in my opinion a human right. I'll cope just fine, but don't expect applause in ten years time.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rocsteady » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:11 pm

Interesting new poll: Brexit: Britons favour second referendum by 16-point margin – poll

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... _clipboard



Astounded that anyone still believes leaving could be economically advantageous.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:22 pm

Garth wrote:Flag pride just screams tribalism to me, I don't see the point of it. Maybe because I've grown up in part of the UK where people take it to extremes.


100% this.


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