Brexit

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union
222
80%
Leave the European Union
57
20%
 
Total votes: 279
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:04 am

lex-man wrote:I personally don't really see the problem anyway. Another company could just make West County Pasties and avoid the problem.


It would be a problem for the areas that have special protections for their products.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit
by Rex Kramer » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:05 am

Moggy wrote:
lex-man wrote:
KK wrote:
Moggy wrote:The British public will buy what’s cheap, especially when the going starts getting really tough.

Cornish pasties are just the headline, there are all sorts of products that the US would love to flood the UK with. And probably will if protectional status is dropped.

That would be the catering sector where any issues are likely to be, because I just can't see the majority of supermarkets lowering their standards (which in many cases already exceed those of the EU anyway). Nothing is currently stopping supermarkets from importing cheap pies using foreign meat (usually from places like Taiwan and Brazil).

Bit too much hysteria (listeria) over this. It's not like "Greek style" yoghurts don't already exist despite it being a knock-off of Fage, along with various other products. Or Welsh lamb isn't competing against cheaper New Zealand Halal lamb. Or UK heritage brands like Cadbury's and HP sauce either made abroad or to much lower standards.


It's really easy to get the made in England stamp though. A lot of 'British' beef and lamb is already from Brazil they just ship it over here as whole carcasses and then processes it in the UK. I'm guessing you could do the similar with Cornish pasties.


Exactly.

Also losing the protections isn’t just a cheap US import problem. UK areas will lose their protections from other areas. A Melton Mowbray pork pie would then be able to be made in Stoke, Cornish pasties in Devon, Scotch in Slough. Etc.

There's nothing stopping us implementing a similar scheme in the UK but it wouldn't make any difference for the EU market. There would be nothing stopping Polish Stilton being sold across the EU for example.

EDIT: I also don't want one of KK's weird chicken based Cornish pasties.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:07 am

Moggy wrote:
lex-man wrote:I personally don't really see the problem anyway. Another company could just make West County Pasties and avoid the problem.


It would be a problem for the areas that have special protections for their products.


I mean I don't see the problem with the protections because you can still make what you want it only places protection on the name. I mean don't make melton mowbray pork pie just make Pork Pies.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:08 am

If it's clearly labelled, is that necessarily a bad thing? Canadian and Australian 'cheddar' cheeses I've eaten, sold under the Taste The Difference line in Sainsbury's, have been just as good as Cheddar cheese made here. Having no protected designation of origin status is neither here nor there as long as it's not hidden from the consumer.

If for example I'm buying fake Scotch whisky, then it should have "Scotch-style" and "Made in America" clearly displayed on the front. Origin Flags are already displayed on the vast majority of own-brand products (when they want you to know where it's from, otherwise it's hidden round the back in small print).

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:14 am

KK wrote:If it's clearly labelled, is that necessarily a bad thing? Canadian and Australian 'cheddar' cheeses I've eaten, sold under the Taste The Difference line in Sainsbury's, have been just as good as Cheddar cheese made here. Having no protected designation of origin status is neither here nor there as long as it's not hidden from the consumer.

If for example I'm buying fake Scotch whisky, then it should have "Scotch-style" and "Made in America" clearly displayed on the front. Origin Flags are already displayed on the vast majority of own-brand products (when they want you to know where it's from, otherwise it's hidden round the back in small print).


But why would it be clearly labelled? If we are coming under pressure from the US to drop regional protections, then the law will be weak on clearly labelling where it’s from.

Your Cornish pasty will be called that and have a massive Union Jack on it, but in tiny, barely readable, letters on the back it’ll say “made in Wisconsin”.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:15 am

Looking at Ocado, "Cornish style" pasties already exist:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit
by Lagamorph » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:17 am

I suspect they're allowed to get away with it because it's Quorn shite rather than something edible.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:31 am

I guess they get away with it as it doesn’t say “Cornish” on the packaging and the listing adds “style”.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:36 am

It’s not just location either, the rules also dictate what the foods are made of.

The EU ruling states that a genuine Cornish pasty has to have a distinctive "D" shape, be crimped on one side. It added: "The texture of the filling is chunky, made up of uncooked minced or roughly cut chunks of beef (not less than 12.5%), swede, potato, and onion with a light seasoning.


So any US (or wherever) knockoffs will also be of much lower quality.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:53 am

May getting irritated today that people are still asking her about Brexit and her irreconcilable demands

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:58 am

But how is throwing the US into the mix any different from all the other countries we currently import from or products like HP Sauce (made in the Netherlands) and "Twinings of London" (partially produced in Poland, I think). Many beer brands like Fosters are made here or elsewhere in the EU. Farms on Marks and Spencer, Lidl and Tesco foods don't even exist, they've made them up.

Why do some products get regional protections and some don't, and in some cases they make no sense anyway. The cheddar industry hasn't suddenly been devalued because they're no longer exclusively in Somerset. Instead what its done is give everyone a template for a style of cheese resulting in more choice and variation than ever before.

Not on all things, but on many things being in the EU has made no difference to the quality of our food because our standards exceeded there's anyway (pork being a significant one). We could have dropped our standards inside the EU to compete with them but we didn't, why would we suddenly now decide to not just match the EU, but go even lower to the US model. Instead what has happened is pressure from the public, media and celebrities like Jamie Oliver have caused food standards to continually increase (it's why most supermarkets have dumped caged eggs, free range eggs are in your mayo and places like McDonald's use RSPCA pork).

If you were to put American bacon on the shelf (which I think Morrisons may have done, briefly), how would that be any different from Walls (EU) or Danish currently competing with vastly superior UK bacon, with the price difference that entails.

The USA produces some absolutely rotten food, but they make a lot of amazing stuff too, and if a trade deal makes it easier (and cheaper) to get it over here, that could also be a good thing.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit
by Moggy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:16 pm

Because some areas have produced food and drink that is intrinsically linked with that area. Why should a Polish company get to make Cornish pasties? Why should an American company get to make Arbroath smokies?

That’s not to say the Polish or US company can’t make a pasty or smoked fish, but why should they be allowed to claim the name (and the history and heritage) of those areas?

You said before that you like labelling to know where things came from. Why would you want to know that your Cornish pasty was actually from Cornwall?

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit
by KK » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:57 pm

9 times out of ten, I personally would like things to be made and owned where they're supposed to be (and try to purchase accordingly) but that generally isn't how the world works any more. Sometimes it makes no difference to the quality of the product, other times it does. Would Newcastle Brown Ale be any different in terms of taste or quality if it was made in another country or anywhere else in the UK? No. Do I like knowing it's still from Newscastle? Absolutely.

You could argue how can Colman’s Mustard in Norwich still be called Colman’s of Norwich when the vast majority of it will now be made in Germany & Burton upon Trent.

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lex-man
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PostRe: Brexit
by lex-man » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:51 pm

https://www.ft.com/content/9461157c-1f9 ... d3483b8b80

The US is offering Britain a worse “Open Skies” deal after Brexit than it had as an EU member, in a negotiating stance that would badly hit the transatlantic operating rights of British Airways and Virgin Atlantic.

British and American negotiators secretly met in January for the first formal talks on a new air services deal, aiming to fill the gap created when Britain falls out of the EU-US open skies treaty after Brexit, according to people familiar with talks.

The talks were cut short after US negotiators offered only a standard bilateral agreement. These typically require airlines to be majority owned and controlled by parties from their country of origin.


So much for just signing up to identical treaties.

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NickSCFC
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PostRe: Brexit
by NickSCFC » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:01 pm

So we're basically being spitroasted by the EU and the USA right now?

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Hyperion
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hyperion » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:08 pm

I don't know what else anyone expected.

Still, those trade deals with Kenya and Panama :datass:

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit
by DML » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:33 pm

How anyone can defend this anymore is a mystery to me, and yet 50% of people do! Such strawberry floating nonsense! :lol:

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit
by Squinty » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:24 pm

Hyperion wrote:I don't know what else anyone expected.

Still, those trade deals with Kenya and Panama :datass:


Mauritania will trade with us :datass:

Last edited by Squinty on Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Garth
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PostRe: Brexit
by Garth » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:24 pm

It makes sense that we'd get worse deals than the EU, we don't have the same clout.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit
by Hexx » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:26 pm

Nah we'll just get the same deals...obviously...

One person attending the London meetings to “put Humpty Dumpty back together” said: “You can’t just scratch out ‘EU’ and put in ‘UK’.” A British official said it showed “the squeeze” London will face as it tries to reconstruct its international agreements after Brexit, even with close allies such as Washington.


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