The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed

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Advent7
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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Advent7 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:34 am

Pretty good race.

Vettel :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:

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Rob-Ho-Ho-92
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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Rob-Ho-Ho-92 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:25 pm

captain red dog wrote:I do have a little bit of sympathy for Vettel, I do think Max turned in on him slightly. Not to mention that when there is an incident at the front, Max normally has something to do with it. Having said that, if one of the top four bodges an overtake it's usually Vettel.

Generally though I think Max is excused over aggression far too much. Vettel shouldn't have to be thinking about waiting for him to serve his penalty, just because Max is such a dangerous guy to overtake.

It does make me think though that Ferrari really should have gone with Danny Ric. Put that guy in a top car and I'm convinced he would be champion.

Anyway, Hamilton on the cusp of being only the 3rd 5 time champion and the first Brit to do so. Love him or loath him, that is bloody impressive.


Against one of the other top 3 cars spoon wasn't really a realistic overtaking spot, he made some good passes there on poorer cars but that's because he could just out brake them and still turn in. I do agree about Max as well, he's always on the limit (and quite rightly penalised against Kimi today) but I don't see that changing really. With the speed Vettel had today (put in a good recovery to climb from 9th to 4th, back down to 19th to eventually finish 6th despite the damage) he might have had a decent chance of following closely through 130R and putting a move on him in the chicane, or maybe even into 130R if he deployed all his battery power then. Obviously loads easier analysing it after the race but he was a little eager, worst case scenario he could have jumped him in the pits (maybe even tried to undercut him as well just to really put the pressure on Verstappen).

I'm really hoping Renault can make some good progress all round, be the definite 4th best team in 2019 (picking up the scraps when the top 3 fall out for the odd podium) and make it a top 4 in the near future. This would definitely help Hulkenberg finally get a realistic shot at a podium and both Ricciardo and Hulkenberg an outside shot at a WDC in a couple of years.

Have to agree about Hamilton as well, I'm not Hamilton's biggest fan (but don't despise him like some people I know do) but you can't deny how well he's driving and how he deserves the WDC this year.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Pancake » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:54 pm

Enjoyed the race even though the Mercs were long gone. It's a shame this season has petered out, it had so much potential.

I would love to see Red Bull and Renault take a big step forward next year.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by captain red dog » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:06 pm

I've been thinking about Vettel's move and it was very similar to Hill at Brooklands in 1995. I actually can't really remember a driver of the supposed caliber of Vettel has had such a poor season in such a good car.

The only thing I can compare it to is Schumacher on his return in 2010, but there it was obvious that he was too old and had too much time away.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Vermi-Claus » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:18 pm

Hill's 1995 season started well with a couple of wins, but by mid season it was off the rails, and by the end it was a complete and total trainwreck (after Silverstone, he rammed Schumi off the road again at Monza, his car broke at Hockenheim sending him spinning off when leading, his Suzuka race was one cock up after another, and at the Nurburgring he put his rear wheels on the kerb and piled into the tyres).

It took a hell of a lot of courage and effort to come back as well as he did in '96.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Pancake » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:30 pm

captain red dog wrote:I've been thinking about Vettel's move and it was very similar to Hill at Brooklands in 1995. I actually can't really remember a driver of the supposed caliber of Vettel has had such a poor season in such a good car.

Interesting thought! Hill in 95 is a good shout, Hamilton in 2011 and Hakkinen in 2001 also spring to mind for me as curiously poor seasons. Maybe... Senna in 94? Feels a bit wrong saying that but he had a pretty poor start to the season by his standards.

Edit: to be fair to Vettel, he had a great start to the year, it has just unravelled in the second half. He has looked increasingly desperate, perhaps a case of trying too hard.

Edit 2: Vettel in 2014 too!

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Vermi-Claus » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:40 pm

Senna's '94 (pre-imola of course) was most definitely a curious one, in Brazil he was caught out by overdriving the car as he tried to catch a much faster Schumi, and i believe the unstable nature of the early '94 cars (especially the Williams) was largely the cause of that. At Aida though, it was just plain bad luck as he was hit from behind into turn one, had that not happened he would have slotted into 2nd and set off in pursuit of Schumacher who had a much better getaway off the line.

Had things not gone awry, Senna would have reached Imola having had two 2nd places at least, so had Imola not happened, he may well have bounced back and actually won the championship.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Pancake » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:44 pm

Can't disagree with that.

Alonso in 07?

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Vermi-Claus » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:56 pm

Pancake wrote:Alonso in 07?


07 was a really close season though, there was little difference between the performance of the McLaren and the Ferrari and so no one had any real car advantage.

Hamilton was ahead for much of the season because he was more consistent, but Alonso, Massa, and Raikkonen were all right there fighting for the win at each and every round.

After Brazil, just a single point separated the top three.

Last edited by Vermi-Claus on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by floydfreak » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:58 pm

Vermilion wrote:Senna's '94 (pre-imola of course) was most definitely a curious one, in Brazil he was caught out by overdriving the car as he tried to catch a much faster Schumi, and i believe the unstable nature of the early '94 cars (especially the Williams) was largely the cause of that. At Aida though, it was just plain bad luck as he was hit from behind into turn one, had that not happened he would have slotted into 2nd and set off in pursuit of Schumacher who had a much better getaway off the line.

Had things not gone awry, Senna would have reached Imola having had two 2nd places at least, so had Imola not happened, he may well have bounced back and actually won the championship.


Yeah the Williams team were baffled at how tricky they were finding the 94 car to set-up, for Ayrton in those opening races to get Pole Position with a difficult car to set-up is impressive.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Pancake » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:00 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Pancake wrote:Alonso in 07?


07 was a really close season though, there was little difference between the performance of the McLaren and the Ferrari and so no one had any real car advantage.

Hamilton was ahead for much of the season because he was more consistent, but Alonso, Massa, and Raikkonen were all right there fighting for the win at each and every round.

After Brazil, just a single point separated the top three.

I know! Just trying to think of seasons when great drivers struggled and there's no doubt it was one of Alonso's toughest years.

It is definitely difficult to think of any that match Vettel's poor performance in the second half of this season.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Vermi-Claus » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:02 pm

floydfreak wrote:
Vermilion wrote:Senna's '94 (pre-imola of course) was most definitely a curious one, in Brazil he was caught out by overdriving the car as he tried to catch a much faster Schumi, and i believe the unstable nature of the early '94 cars (especially the Williams) was largely the cause of that. At Aida though, it was just plain bad luck as he was hit from behind into turn one, had that not happened he would have slotted into 2nd and set off in pursuit of Schumacher who had a much better getaway off the line.

Had things not gone awry, Senna would have reached Imola having had two 2nd places at least, so had Imola not happened, he may well have bounced back and actually won the championship.


Yeah the Williams team were baffled at how tricky they were finding the 94 car to set-up, for Ayrton in those opening races to get P1 with a difficult car is impressive.


The biggest problem with the '94 cars in the first part of the season was how unstable they were as a result of the ban on driver aids. Less was known at the time on how these systems affected the aerodynamics and when the regulations changed, it systematically affected the way the cars handled.

This is now widely believed to be why there were so many big accidents around that time, as in addition to the fatal crashes of Senna & Ratzenberger, we also had Jean Alesi & JJ Lehto injured in testing, Karl Wendlinger's crash in Monaco, and Andrea Montermini's smash at Barcelona. I won't include the Brazil crash in this as that was largely Irvine being a dick, and the start crash at Imola happened because Lehto had stalled and Lamy was caught unawares.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by floydfreak » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:15 pm

The removal of the electronics made the cars unstable and as you said not much was known on the effect they had on the stability of cars aero and grip wise. 1994 in the modern era was the most dangerous F1 cars since the 70's. They had became lackluster safety wise as no deaths since Elio de Angelis in testing. I mean its scary looking at how exposed their heads were in 1990-94 the amount of crashes pre-94 where there no were deaths is extremely lucky and some of them were nasty into concrete walls. Martin donnelly, Erik Comas, Derek Warwick to name a few of top of my head

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Rob-Ho-Ho-92 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:38 pm

Pancake wrote:
captain red dog wrote:I've been thinking about Vettel's move and it was very similar to Hill at Brooklands in 1995. I actually can't really remember a driver of the supposed caliber of Vettel has had such a poor season in such a good car.

Interesting thought! Hill in 95 is a good shout, Hamilton in 2011 and Hakkinen in 2001 also spring to mind for me as curiously poor seasons. Maybe... Senna in 94? Feels a bit wrong saying that but he had a pretty poor start to the season by his standards.

Edit: to be fair to Vettel, he had a great start to the year, it has just unravelled in the second half. He has looked increasingly desperate, perhaps a case of trying too hard.

Edit 2: Vettel in 2014 too!


Hamilton's McLaren just seemed to be constantly attracted to the Ferrari of Massa in 2011, I still remember his comments after Monaco :lol:

On Vettel, you're right in that he has very much had a season of 2 halves, for the most part was decent in the first half (still a few mistakes mind) but the second half has just escaped both Vettel and Ferrari (and to a lesser degree Raikkonen as if the car really was that good Kimi should have been fighting for the win if Vettel couldn't) for some reason.

Vettel's 2014 season was very odd though. Obviously on pure speed Vettel is certainly up there so no one expected he would be beaten so handily by Ricciardo. He was obviously majorly shaken by the new cars and how some of the 'tricks' he and Red Bull used to their advantage over his wining years were taken away (the exhaust blown diffuser was the big one, Seb had that pretty much nailed down in getting the best out of it), Ricciardo was obviously much quicker to adapt but at the time I did find myself asking why? The only reason I could think of (not taking anything away from Ricciardo, he had a superb season) was that he adapted to the Red Bull quicker because he never learned to rely on things like the blown diffuser as much while Vettel had got his style nailed based on the EBD. Obviously this may all be a figment of my imagination but at the time I was truly baffled as to how and why the reigning 4 x WDC could get beaten so seemingly easily and this seemed a semi plausible reason as to why. Ricciardo has turned out to be pretty handy in an F1 car so maybe he literally just had an almost perfect season while Vettel had a pretty torrid one. We'll probably never know for sure (or until one of them writes a book when they retire) what happened in 2014.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Advent7 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:47 pm

Ferrari's season in gif form

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Vermi-Claus » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:46 am

floydfreak wrote:I mean its scary looking at how exposed their heads were in 1990-94 the amount of crashes pre-94 where there no were deaths is extremely lucky and some of them were nasty into concrete walls. Martin donnelly, Erik Comas, Derek Warwick to name a few of top of my head


Alex Zanardi at Spa in 93 was a big one, he was out of F1 until mid 94 as a result...


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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by captain red dog » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:56 am

It's incredible really to see how far safety has come, and that's probably the best part of Max Mosleys's legacy, aside from his non-Nazi orgy.

I do find myself wincing a bit at some of the corners at Suzuka, I'm certain we are going to get another big crash at 130R one day, the run off doesn't seem sufficient either on the outside or inside of that corner.

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Advent7 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:02 am

I can't place that corner...is it eau rouge with a wall at the top? :dread:

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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by andretmzt » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:37 am

Ad7 wrote:I can't place that corner...is it eau rouge with a wall at the top? :dread:



HSH28 wrote:No Last Guardian.
No new exclusive PS4 games.
No longer free MP for PS4.

Microsoft win E3.
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PostRe: The F1 2018 thread - #Blessed
by Vermi-Claus » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:38 pm

Ad7 wrote:I can't place that corner...is it eau rouge with a wall at the top? :dread:


Yep, it's right at the top of the climb.

Also, on a separate note...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13924 ... ar-in-2020

Looks like F1 is heading to Vietnam, i wonder if McLaren will use it as a launch event for an Agent Orange energy drinks initiative?


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