The Football Thread 2011/12

[teh bork]

Remind me how the last major tournaments under English managers went? If you take away El Tel and the fact that it was in England, Capello has matched or beaten every English manager since Robson at Italia 90. Or perhaps you'd prefer to scrape through or not even qualify for major tournaments? Also a draw with America at the world cup wasn't exactly awful, for some idiotic reason we seem to believe that they're still a third world footballing country, ignoring their recent successes, such as the finalists in the Confederation Cup, in which they beat Spain. Of course we'll ignore the crushing victories over a Croatian side who had humiliated us twice in the Euro 08 qualifiers or the relative ease with which we qualified for two major tournaments. Yep the man was never good enough, how he frankly didn't win everything with the greatest footballing side the world ever saw is nothing short of disgraceful.

Playing the "You think we did badly, therefore you must think England are the best team ever" card there, I see. There's no way we were getting far in 2010, but it was the performances at the tournament that dissapointed me the most- we always looked like a poor team with no chance of making real progress. The USA are a very good team, don't get me wrong- so pipe down with your "OMG YOU THINK THEY'RE gooseberry fool!!" terrible line of reasoning based off the fact I felt we were capable of beating them. Just because I thought we should win that match doesn't mean I think they're a terrible team, okay?

As for Capello matching or beating every manager since 90...his WC finishing position was our worst since 1998 (also Last 16), so I don't see how that statement works, considering in 2002 and 2006 we at least got to the Quarters and put up a decent fight, instead of capitulating to a 4-1 defeat. Capello has by no means been the worst manager we've had in recent times- but I think people are thinking he did a much better job than he actually did.

No, but coming out with 'OMG WE SHOULD BE BEATING SHITTY TEAMS LIKE USA, ALGERIA AND SLOVENIA' is disrespectful, considering they qualified for the World Cup in the first place and weren't the piss poor teams so many English fans seemed to believe. We looked like a poor team because we are a poor team, add to that off the field issues with Rooney and injuries to important players like Barry and Ferdinand and yeah we had very little chance. I will pipe down if you don't post about how a draw with a very good USA side is disappointing.

If you read my point you'd have realised I said English manager, not counting Sven who did an impressive job considering the sides he had. So considering that's better than or the same as every English manager since then I'd say that Capello's record was pretty impressive. He did do a good job, he qualified easily for two major tournaments, with some excellent results along the way. We were playing good football, with good tactics for once and instead that's all thrown away and forgotten about. By all means lets criticise the bloke for the World Cup campaign, pay little attention to the other factors in that tournament, because it's always easy to blame the foreign manager. I eagerly await 'Arry to fail at the Euro's yet see the blame all pinned on Capello, it'll literally be t'riffic.

[Denster]

Both Capello and Sven were good at qualifying but both were poor in the actual tournaments themselves. As were quite a few of the players.

[Glowy69]

Sven got to the q/f in euro 2004 & 2006 and a whisker away from the semis in 2002, not that bad really

[Dblock]

England needs a new formation and take risk with new players. Whenever they play against big team they seem confused and out of place. Coach needs to drill new formation into their heads and teach them to keep the ball longer then 30 seconds , it's a race to score first .

[Denster]

Sven got to the q/f in euro 2004 & 2006 and a whisker away from the semis in 2002, not that bad really

They beat an abject Argentina and a pretty poor danish team before meekly surrendering to ten man Brazil. They were dull and uninspiring in 2006.

[Mockmaster]

Apparently Paulo Di Canio thinks Harry sounds like Manuel from Fawlty Towers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16968901

[Dark Ritual]

No, but coming out with 'OMG WE SHOULD BE BEATING SHITTY TEAMS LIKE USA, ALGERIA AND SLOVENIA' is disrespectful, considering they qualified for the World Cup in the first place and weren't the piss poor teams so many English fans seemed to believe. We looked like a poor team because we are a poor team, add to that off the field issues with Rooney and injuries to important players like Barry and Ferdinand and yeah we had very little chance. I will pipe down if you don't post about how a draw with a very good USA side is disappointing.

If you read my point you'd have realised I said English manager, not counting Sven who did an impressive job considering the sides he had. So considering that's better than or the same as every English manager since then I'd say that Capello's record was pretty impressive. He did do a good job, he qualified easily for two major tournaments, with some excellent results along the way. We were playing good football, with good tactics for once and instead that's all thrown away and forgotten about. By all means lets criticise the bloke for the World Cup campaign, pay little attention to the other factors in that tournament, because it's always easy to blame the foreign manager. I eagerly await 'Arry to fail at the Euro's yet see the blame all pinned on Capello, it'll literally be t'riffic.

I'm sorry, but I never called any of those teams shitty. Please stop putting words in my mouth to try and further your argument. All I said is that I felt the results were not good enough:

When it came to the big competition, we ended up drawing with the US and Algeria and scraped past Slovenia (SLovakia?) How is that good enough?

My main point of chagrin was the draw with Algeria and the poor performance against Slovenia. A draw with the US is not by all means a bad result. However, I still maintain that with a better performance, we would have been able to secure all three points. Is that really such a bad thing to say, that I feel we had a team capable of beating them? We were not a great team heading into the World Cup, but I certainly feel we should have come out with better performances and results, even if we did have some injuries. Overall, I feel that we never really played to the best of our capabilities and could have progressed further. And that blame rests (mostly) with the manager, does it not?

Sorry, I misread your post and didn't realise you said English manager. My mistake. I still maintain that Capello did okay, but he never did anything particularly amazing. Also, I am not blaming him just because he's foreign. I'm not a very patriotic person and I could not care less where the manager is from.

[Glowy69]

Sven got to the q/f in euro 2004 & 2006 and a whisker away from the semis in 2002, not that bad really

They beat an abject Argentina and a pretty poor danish team before meekly surrendering to ten man Brazil. They were dull and uninspiring in 2006.

Spain are dull but they win everything, I dont care how we play I just want a trophy dammit. And both euros were on pens so that is hardly Svens fault, 2004, Rooney got injured in the QF, and then er, sent off in 2006

But yes we was gooseberry fool in 2006.

[Bene Version 3]

I think Capello done well in qualifying for both tournaments but at the World Cup he bottled it by taking unfit, injured and out of form players because they were big names.

Hiddink is the man for me.

[teh bork]

No, but coming out with 'OMG WE SHOULD BE BEATING SHITTY TEAMS LIKE USA, ALGERIA AND SLOVENIA' is disrespectful, considering they qualified for the World Cup in the first place and weren't the piss poor teams so many English fans seemed to believe. We looked like a poor team because we are a poor team, add to that off the field issues with Rooney and injuries to important players like Barry and Ferdinand and yeah we had very little chance. I will pipe down if you don't post about how a draw with a very good USA side is disappointing.

If you read my point you'd have realised I said English manager, not counting Sven who did an impressive job considering the sides he had. So considering that's better than or the same as every English manager since then I'd say that Capello's record was pretty impressive. He did do a good job, he qualified easily for two major tournaments, with some excellent results along the way. We were playing good football, with good tactics for once and instead that's all thrown away and forgotten about. By all means lets criticise the bloke for the World Cup campaign, pay little attention to the other factors in that tournament, because it's always easy to blame the foreign manager. I eagerly await 'Arry to fail at the Euro's yet see the blame all pinned on Capello, it'll literally be t'riffic.

I'm sorry, but I never called any of those teams shitty. Please stop putting words in my mouth to try and further your argument. All I said is that I felt the results were not good enough:

My apologies, the way you'd typed suggested that, sorry for taking it out of context.

When it came to the big competition, we ended up drawing with the US and Algeria and scraped past Slovenia (SLovakia?) How is that good enough?

My main point of chagrin was the draw with Algeria and the poor performance against Slovenia. A draw with the US is not by all means a bad result. However, I still maintain that with a better performance, we would have been able to secure all three points. Is that really such a bad thing to say, that I feel we had a team capable of beating them? We were not a great team heading into the World Cup, but I certainly feel we should have come out with better performances and results, even if we did have some injuries. Overall, I feel that we never really played to the best of our capabilities and could have progressed further. And that blame rests (mostly) with the manager, does it not?

Sorry, I misread your post and didn't realise you said English manager. My mistake. I still maintain that Capello did okay, but he never did anything particularly amazing. Also, I am not blaming him just because he's foreign. I'm not a very patriotic person and I could not care less where the manager is from.

Should we have though? Injuries to key players, media criticism to others and the whole Rooney hooker injunction incidenct caused derailment. Add to that the pressure that the media lumps onto the national side and the side were bound to perform poorly. I honestly felt for Capello, he didn't have the side to play the way he wanted to and everything he did was crucified in the press. If anything I'd say the blame lies more with the media than anything else. The pressure, the continuous belief that we're the best team in the world, that criticisms over any little mistake. The impact that has on players is enormous, you only need to look at England players who've been targeted by the press to see how it's affected them.

Maybe not amazing, but he did better than, Sven excluded, the three English managers before him, which is something people seem to have forgotten. It's quite amazing seeing the stick Capello has recieved off the press, not even McClaren had it this bad and he was an abject failure.

Sven got to the q/f in euro 2004 & 2006 and a whisker away from the semis in 2002, not that bad really

They beat an abject Argentina and a pretty poor danish team before meekly surrendering to ten man Brazil. They were dull and uninspiring in 2006.

Spain are dull but they win everything, I dont care how we play I just want a trophy dammit. And both euros were on pens so that is hardly Svens fault, 2004, Rooney got injured in the QF, and then er, sent off in 2006

But yes we was gooseberry fool in 2006.

Spain aren't dull Glowy, they play superb football. However in response to this other teams, as demonstrated in the World Cup, try and shut up shop against them and play 9 men behind the ball at all times. The only side not to do so, Chile, provided one of the most enjoyable games of the whole tournament, much better than watching the opposition sit back and kick lumps out of a superbly gifted technical side.

[Denster]

Tru Dat!

[Dark Ritual]

I mostly agree with the rest of what you've said, bork. Especially on the fact that England manager might well be the most pressure-filled job in the world. And the media don't help. The media who even once agreed as a group not to break a story, then one of them got greedy and did anyway. (Lord Triesman)

On an even sadder note, have to feel for Porstmouth:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/16970312

[Codename 47]

According to the Italian media, Capello never actually said those alleged comments about Terry and how he was 'still his captain' and stuff.

I actually agree with DBlock to be honest. Our players need to be more flexible when it comes to formations and lineups and against the bigger teams we need to learn to be more patient. Too often we seem to panic and seem to resort to long balls or direct passing. I also agree with Captain Red Dog, it's time we play that sort of high tempo football that we see in the premiership. European teams do not like being constantly pressed and harassed - they love having that time on the ball. We're obviously not as great technically as the likes of Spain, so we should play to our strengths like they do theirs.

[DML]

I think Capello done well in qualifying for both tournaments but at the World Cup he bottled it by taking unfit, injured and out of form players because they were big names.

Hiddink is the man for me.

After his utterly abject performance in Turkey and his tendency to simply chase the money - Hiddink would be a dreadful choice for me personally.

[Cuttooth]

Guys, Adriano has got proper fat.



Corinthians are trying to make him lose weight by locking him in the team's hotel room.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012 ... NTCMP=SRCH

[Bene Version 3]

I think Capello done well in qualifying for both tournaments but at the World Cup he bottled it by taking unfit, injured and out of form players because they were big names.

Hiddink is the man for me.

After his utterly abject performance in Turkey and his tendency to simply chase the money - Hiddink would be a dreadful choice for me personally.

Forgot about him at Turkey. Still got a good record though.

Adriano

[Glowy69]

Alan Pardew for england. strawberry float off. Ruling himeself out of the running, yeah cus you had a chance mate

[Minto]

Adriano

Does he have a medical condition like Ronaldo or does he just eat like strawberry float?

[Codename 47]

Adriano

Does he have a medical condition like Ronaldo or does he just eat like strawberry float?

I could be wrong but i'd wager that he just eats like a horse coupled with no real desire to stay in good shape. The guy was a strawberry floating beast though for a couple of years. I remember Mourinho wanted him quite badly at Chelsea. Unfortunately for him he joins a long list of players than never quite fulfilled their potential.

[Glowy69]

He was awesome on Pro Evo though