The Football Thread 2021/22: England thrown to Hungary lions

[Photek]

I actually am surprised that Mancini wasn't sacked for failing to qualify for the World Cup.

I think its actually quite a smart decision because for 'this level' (ie, managers who are willing to manage international teams) hes probably up at the top quality wise.

Dude won leagues and yaknow the Euro's with Italy.

[Moggy]

You won't win anything under Southgate - feel free to quote this. Some of you are living in cloud cuckoo land, England scraped through to the semi final of the WC and Euro Final on Set Peices mostly.

We won't win anything under anyone. Have you SEEN the Brazil and France squads?

England have a phenomenal squad of players....

Best squad in a long while, but nothing in comparison to the squads above. You are sort of arguing two different things. One is that England have a great set of players (they do) but they aren't the best team in the world. So therefore isn't a semi-final and a final pretty good going? The other is that Southgate is out of his depth, when he's already got a track record that shows he isn't - unless you are expecting him to win tournaments to prove his worth? To me, that is mental.

I'm not arguing two different things at all, a competent manager would get far FAR more out of this team, if he's NOT out of his depth what Premier team would take him as a manger then?

The only way to have got FAR more out of this team would be to have won the 2018 World Cup and Euro 2021. It seems unlikely any other manager would have won them both.

[DML]

You won't win anything under Southgate - feel free to quote this. Some of you are living in cloud cuckoo land, England scraped through to the semi final of the WC and Euro Final on Set Peices mostly.

We won't win anything under anyone. Have you SEEN the Brazil and France squads?

England have a phenomenal squad of players....

Best squad in a long while, but nothing in comparison to the squads above. You are sort of arguing two different things. One is that England have a great set of players (they do) but they aren't the best team in the world. So therefore isn't a semi-final and a final pretty good going? The other is that Southgate is out of his depth, when he's already got a track record that shows he isn't - unless you are expecting him to win tournaments to prove his worth? To me, that is mental.

I'm not arguing two different things at all, a competent manager would get far FAR more out of this team, if he's NOT out of his depth what Premier team would take him as a manger then?

Aha! This is where you are falling flat.

No top six manager is going to take the England job. Look at the level of the international managers. It's really not that great. For *this* pool of managers, Southgate is perfectly fine. He'd be slaughtered by Guardiola or Klopp, but he's not playing against those managers. I have no doubt he will get a Premier League job when he leaves England at someone like Brighton, but that is crucially if he wants one. The international management lifestyle might suit him.

I'm not even really defending Southgate, but his record is pretty damn good. You can't just ignore that. If an Irish manager got Republic of Ireland to the last 8 of a tournament and then you had a bad Nations League campaign, you wouldn't sack him! I honestly see this as a similar situation. I've seen too many last sixteen/QF knockouts with England to know better.

[Lotus]

I don't think people should react too much to the result last night -it's a glorified friendly at the end of a long season (not saying people on here are reacting too much, but elsewhere).

I certainly can't see Southgate leaving off the back of one poor result, or even having his position questioned by anyone with any influence over it. Yes, the other Nations League results in this run haven't been great, but see my point above. I think there are valid questions about where Southgate can take the team though, and even moreso if we don't have a great World Cup.

There's no doubt he's done great things with the squad cohesion, saying and doing the right things off the pitch, carries himself well, and - of course - doing very well in the last two tournaments. But on the pitch, it's incredibly dull to watch, and very negative. There's no reason we couldn't have won Euro 2020, but we sat back after going a goal up, and invited Italy to try and score. There was a brief period a couple of years ago where we played with a more attacking style, and it was actually enjoyable to watch, and we scored plenty of goals. We haven't scored in over 6 hours now, and we always seem to favour defensive mindsets and formations over anything else.

I think Southgate will go after the World Cup. I don't think we'll do as well as people will expect, and I think Southgate will realise he's taken the team as far as he can. We don't have amazing players, but we certainly have some very good ones, and I think the current set up doesn't get the best out of them.

[Photek]

No top six manager is going to take the England job. Look at the level of the international managers. It's really not that great. For *this* pool of managers, Southgate is perfectly fine. He'd be slaughtered by Guardiola or Klopp, but he's not playing against those managers. I have no doubt he will get a Premier League job when he leaves England at someone like Brighton, but that is crucially if he wants one. The international management lifestyle might suit him.

I'm not even really defending Southgate, but his record is pretty damn good. You can't just ignore that. If an Irish manager got Republic of Ireland to the last 8 of a tournament and then you had a bad Nations League campaign, you wouldn't sack him! I honestly see this as a similar situation. I've seen too many last sixteen/QF knockouts with England to know better.

Are you actually taking the pish? Brighton would take Southgate over Graham Potter? He would not get a job at ANY PREM TEAM, this isn't a controversial statement at all.

Hansi Flick and Luis Enrique are really not that great.... ok man....

Martin O'Neal got us out of our group in the euro's, we played like shite. We are now JUST NOW starting to play slightly ok under a lesser known manager.

England should be dominating most teams in Europe, not winning 1-0 from corners/free kicks/penalties.

[DML]

No top six manager is going to take the England job. Look at the level of the international managers. It's really not that great. For *this* pool of managers, Southgate is perfectly fine. He'd be slaughtered by Guardiola or Klopp, but he's not playing against those managers. I have no doubt he will get a Premier League job when he leaves England at someone like Brighton, but that is crucially if he wants one. The international management lifestyle might suit him.

I'm not even really defending Southgate, but his record is pretty damn good. You can't just ignore that. If an Irish manager got Republic of Ireland to the last 8 of a tournament and then you had a bad Nations League campaign, you wouldn't sack him! I honestly see this as a similar situation. I've seen too many last sixteen/QF knockouts with England to know better.

Are you actually taking the pish? Brighton would take Southgate over Graham Potter? He would not get a job at ANY PREM TEAM, this isn't a controversial statement at all.

Hansi Flick and Luis Enrique are really not that great.... ok man....

Martin O'Neal got us out of our group in the euro's, we played like shite. We are now JUST NOW starting to play slightly ok under a lesser known manager.

The reason I said Brighton is because I could see Potter taking over England after 2022.

He'll definitely get a lower Prem job. Hes got lots of experience working with some of the best players in the game. You think no teams will take a punt on him? A past England manager? Roy Hodgson gets Prem jobs. ROY. HODGSON.

[Photek]

No top six manager is going to take the England job. Look at the level of the international managers. It's really not that great. For *this* pool of managers, Southgate is perfectly fine. He'd be slaughtered by Guardiola or Klopp, but he's not playing against those managers. I have no doubt he will get a Premier League job when he leaves England at someone like Brighton, but that is crucially if he wants one. The international management lifestyle might suit him.

I'm not even really defending Southgate, but his record is pretty damn good. You can't just ignore that. If an Irish manager got Republic of Ireland to the last 8 of a tournament and then you had a bad Nations League campaign, you wouldn't sack him! I honestly see this as a similar situation. I've seen too many last sixteen/QF knockouts with England to know better.

Are you actually taking the pish? Brighton would take Southgate over Graham Potter? He would not get a job at ANY PREM TEAM, this isn't a controversial statement at all.

Hansi Flick and Luis Enrique are really not that great.... ok man....

Martin O'Neal got us out of our group in the euro's, we played like shite. We are now JUST NOW starting to play slightly ok under a lesser known manager.

The reason I said Brighton is because I could see Potter taking over England after 2022.

He'll definitely get a lower Prem job. Hes got lots of experience working with some of the best players in the game. You think no teams will take a punt on him? A past England manager? Roy Hodgson gets Prem jobs. ROY. HODGSON.

We'll have to agree to disagree, Hodgson had man years of premier league management before the England job....

[Cuttooth]

I actually am surprised that Mancini wasn't sacked for failing to qualify for the World Cup.

I think its actually quite a smart decision because for 'this level' (ie, managers who are willing to manage international teams) hes probably up at the top quality wise.

Dude won leagues and yaknow the Euro's with Italy.

Italian football is famous for its ruthlessness in sacking managers, even successful ones!

[Benzin]

You'd probably get a relegation candidate go for Southgate for some "defensive discipline" but it would be a Fulham/Norwich/Watford type.

That left side of defence is questionable (assuming Stones and TAA filling the right in a 4 man defence) in terms of depth and quality. Constantly playing right backs there doesn't help but the pool is limited given Chilwell seems to have injury issues and Shaw is very inconsistent. There's potential in the likes of Guehi and Tomori mind.

Midfield needs to find that balance. Would 1 or 2 CDMs suit? 2 is more defensive but would allow the front players to be more expressive. 1 DM would mean the other midfielders have to do more work defensively.

Kane is obvious choice as striker but needs to be in a set up that allows him to prosper like Spurs. Kane, Grealish and Foden could be the choice going forward but then the depth behind is where the issue lies.

Lack of a true top quality central midfield is the main problem right now. Means Southgate feels he has to play more defensively to avoid that being exploited. Rice is getting there but Philips was terrible last night. Who else is there in a Kante or Fabinho mould?

[Imrahil]

I sometimes get the feeling people deliberately over-rate this England squad, so that when they don't live up to those expectations they can use that as a stick to beat them with. And when they do win it's a case of "well yeah, they should be winning".

They are nowhere near being a 'phenomenal group of players'. One or two of them are, a few are pretty decent (most of the time), and others are really inconsistent and downright sloppy at times. Many of them play for club sides with world-class players around them every game, which makes an almighty difference.

[DML]

Saka is the absolute embodiment of an overrated player to me. Hes a good player, should definitely be in the squad, but is he one of the best forward players in international football? Not by a very long shot. We have quite a lot of players like that who are a solid part of the squad but not much more. I suppose England's potential depends on one of them suddenly catching fire, much like Sterling did in the last tournament.

[Drumstick]

I don't think these matches matter a great deal. The regular season barely ended before they linked up for this latest batch of games and the elevens have been experimental.

The players picked, experimental or not should not be hammered 4-0 by Hungary and get out played by Italy and Germany, also, you know Germany, Hungary and Italy ALSO HAVE A LEAGUE SEASON? Mind blowing stuff!

Why the actual f*** would you pick an experimental team months out from the World Cup?

Are you upset with me here, or...?

[Drumstick]

I actually am surprised that Mancini wasn't sacked for failing to qualify for the World Cup.

Agreed. It feels like that should always be the death knell for the stronger footballing nations. I suppose that he's being backed in recognition of the Euros victory?

[Denster]

This tournament is a warm up. Thats all it is. Its the perfect time to experiment with players.
Not sure what more Southgate has to do to get respect.
World Cup semi. Runners up on penalties in the Euros.
Better than any England manager since 66. Look at Sven and the talent he had in 2002 and 2006 and he did strawberry float all with it. People have astonishingly short memories in Football.
4-0 at home to Hungary is a shocking result but given the context and the status of the game. It means strawberry float all.
World cups and Euro championships are what we should be judging Southgate on. The only thing we should be.

[poshrule_uk]

Southgate deserves the world cup. We won't win it no matter who is on charge but will all dream like we did last summer.

We have gone out of so many tournaments to 'lesser' teams.

Also when people criticise England for having an easy run last year, does Brazil run to winning the world cup 2002 mean there success that year make there achievement any less?

[Psychic]

Not sure what more Southgate has to do to get respect.

Show some semblance of in-game management to change a result for the better.
Have England play well for more than one game a tournament.
Set up the team in a way that attacking players look good against decent opposition.

Any of those would get a number of detractors onside.

[DML]

Not sure what more Southgate has to do to get respect.

Show some semblance of in-game management to change a result for the better.
Have England play well for more than one game a tournament.
Set up the team in a way that attacking players look good against decent opposition.

Any of those would get a number of detractors onside.

Gets results though doesn't he? And its a results game ultimately.

I reckon if he was called Southgatini, people would perceive it as the players fault. It's not cool to admit Southgate might actually have done quite a good job.

[Denster]

Not sure what more Southgate has to do to get respect.

Show some semblance of in-game management to change a result for the better.
Have England play well for more than one game a tournament.
Set up the team in a way that attacking players look good against decent opposition.

Any of those would get a number of detractors onside.

Better in game management I think. That's a fair point. Especially in the final against Italy. Playing well in one game is extremely harsh. Results would indicate otherwise.

[Jenuall]

Southgate is such an odd case in that he deserves credit for achieving by far England's best tournament results in several generations, but at the same time I think is justifiably open to criticism for failures in how he handles the squad available and his tactical approach in terms of both match preparation and adapting mid-game.

I don't think he's going anywhere for a while yet, and likewise agree that taking action off the back of Nations League results would be rash.

Likewise, for all the carping about the mercurial talents of squads like France - they failed to get beyond the round of 16 at the Euros and are currently bottom of their Nations League group!

[DML]

I think ultimately running Nations League games in June is one of the most bloody stupid things thats ever happened.