The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS

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SugarDave
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons
by SugarDave » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:10 am

Preezy wrote:
FudgeDiver wrote:
basically, to give you a rundown on why it becoming bizarre at the end is the reason the game is so good.

it opens with your expectations of Metal Gear Solid, you playing as Snake doing things like in MGS1, which is what the first part of the ruse is. But then part 2 comes, which is meant to be a recreation of the shadow moses incident, with Raiden playing the part of Snake, much like what is expected for a sequel.

But it's not, Raiden isn't Snake. But he plays almost exactly the same and fills the same role. But they're not the same. Even similar things aren't the same, like you fighting a Harrier and not a Hind. The fantastical is increased further, with the shamans and psychics of MGS1 replaced with a literal vampire and a woman who's so lucky she cannot be hurt (Which the game tries subverting, but still gives the whiff of it being there). Notably, Vamp himself is a callback to Liquid Snake never strawberry floating dying.

This recreation could be called as an attempt to create an in universe sequel, but it's not quite right, there's things missing and not right. The foremost being the protagonist for part 2 onwards, Raiden. He's set up as the protagonist replacing the 'dead' Snake, and his actor in the recreation. However, despite Raiden himself getting into the Snake role (even taking his name for a short while), he's definitely not Snake. He's a stand in for the player themself, a person living vicariously through videogames, pretending they're someone they're not. In Raiden's case, he thinks of himself as a legendary soldier, despite his only experience being VR, essentially videogames. Both Raiden and Player had fond memories of experiencing Shadow Moses themselves, despite not being there, they felt like they were. But, Raiden is controlled by the player and controlled to his whims, right down to his dogtags having your name on them.

Towards the end of the game, when it starts getting more bizarre, is when Raiden finally asserts his difference from Snake. You could also say it's when MGS2 asserts its difference from all the callbacks to MGS1. Raiden's use of a sword also represents this, a weapon that Snake has never used. At this point too, the facade also breaks down. The Colonel starts freaking out, as Raiden is breaking free from the recreation and the game is breaking free of the shackles of being a sequel. He, and the player wanted to believe it was the real Roy Campbell, since that was 'MGS1' in their eyes. The recreation/game/Patriot AI doesn't like that everything is not going as it should and it starts freaking out and getting weirder, such as the locations being named from the actual body parts.

Even with all these deviations, the final nail in the coffin is Solid Snake himself arriving, fully distinct from Raiden. Raiden is a man running with a sword, a weapon unique to him from Snake, whilst Snake is as he is in the player/Raidens memory. Raiden's fully differentiated himself and MGS2 is no longer a retread of MGS1, you're now playing the game differently.

The game finally sheds MGS1 after this when Liquid takes over Ocelot, taking the RAY and legging it, with Snake in hot pursuit, just leaving Solidus and Raiden together, everyone from the prior game dead or having left. And at the end of the game, when you no longer have control, Raiden sheds his Dog tags with you on, moving on from both the game and MGS1.

tldr MGS2 is set up to be a by the numbers sequel, but it and Raiden manage to break free of being just rehashes of their prior incarnation and make something unique for themself.

Well that's a very interesting take on it, thanks for sharing :D

Is that perhaps why Raiden appears androgynous? That way the player (male or female) can imprint themselves onto the character?


Raiden is an intentionally unappealing protagonist who is a Solid Snake fanboy like the majority of returning players from MGS1. Given how much contempt MGS2 displays for its fans, he's probably the most obvious display of mockery. People poke fun at how weird the line is but I don't think it's a coincidence that Raiden mishears the name of the terminal you input your name on as "nerd" instead of "node".

Or maybe it is a coincidence. Kojima has insisted since the game's release that Raiden was designed to appeal to women as a kind of heartthrob, which I've never understood in a game whose protagonist was already this guy.

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Frank
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons
by Frank » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:40 am

Minoru wrote:I gave up on Danganronpa. It seemed in theory like the kind of game I'd like and I kept hearing good things, but all of the characters were really boring stereotype/cliches with no interesting features.


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Danganronpa is really good :( You should stick with it.

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Wedgie
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Wedgie » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:10 pm

GTAIV...

I must have restarted this so many times and still haven’t got past the first 4 hours.

And guess what? GTAV is pretty much the same.

A shame considering how much a fan I am of GTA3 and Vice City.

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Minoru
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons
by Minoru » Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:40 am

Frank wrote:Image

Danganronpa is really good :( You should stick with it.

I went in genuinely expecting to like it, but it just wasn't doing it for me. I don't know, maybe I needed to give it more time. I might give it another shot some time.

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Damian
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons
by Damian » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:36 am

FudgeDiver wrote:basically, to give you a rundown on why it becoming bizarre at the end is the reason the game is so good.

it opens with your expectations of Metal Gear Solid, you playing as Snake doing things like in MGS1, which is what the first part of the ruse is. But then part 2 comes, which is meant to be a recreation of the shadow moses incident, with Raiden playing the part of Snake, much like what is expected for a sequel.

But it's not, Raiden isn't Snake. But he plays almost exactly the same and fills the same role. But they're not the same. Even similar things aren't the same, like you fighting a Harrier and not a Hind. The fantastical is increased further, with the shamans and psychics of MGS1 replaced with a literal vampire and a woman who's so lucky she cannot be hurt (Which the game tries subverting, but still gives the whiff of it being there). Notably, Vamp himself is a callback to Liquid Snake never strawberry floating dying.

This recreation could be called as an attempt to create an in universe sequel, but it's not quite right, there's things missing and not right. The foremost being the protagonist for part 2 onwards, Raiden. He's set up as the protagonist replacing the 'dead' Snake, and his actor in the recreation. However, despite Raiden himself getting into the Snake role (even taking his name for a short while), he's definitely not Snake. He's a stand in for the player themself, a person living vicariously through videogames, pretending they're someone they're not. In Raiden's case, he thinks of himself as a legendary soldier, despite his only experience being VR, essentially videogames. Both Raiden and Player had fond memories of experiencing Shadow Moses themselves, despite not being there, they felt like they were. But, Raiden is controlled by the player and controlled to his whims, right down to his dogtags having your name on them.

Towards the end of the game, when it starts getting more bizarre, is when Raiden finally asserts his difference from Snake. You could also say it's when MGS2 asserts its difference from all the callbacks to MGS1. Raiden's use of a sword also represents this, a weapon that Snake has never used. At this point too, the facade also breaks down. The Colonel starts freaking out, as Raiden is breaking free from the recreation and the game is breaking free of the shackles of being a sequel. He, and the player wanted to believe it was the real Roy Campbell, since that was 'MGS1' in their eyes. The recreation/game/Patriot AI doesn't like that everything is not going as it should and it starts freaking out and getting weirder, such as the locations being named from the actual body parts.

Even with all these deviations, the final nail in the coffin is Solid Snake himself arriving, fully distinct from Raiden. Raiden is a man running with a sword, a weapon unique to him from Snake, whilst Snake is as he is in the player/Raidens memory. Raiden's fully differentiated himself and MGS2 is no longer a retread of MGS1, you're now playing the game differently.

The game finally sheds MGS1 after this when Liquid takes over Ocelot, taking the RAY and legging it, with Snake in hot pursuit, just leaving Solidus and Raiden together, everyone from the prior game dead or having left. And at the end of the game, when you no longer have control, Raiden sheds his Dog tags with you on, moving on from both the game and MGS1.

tldr MGS2 is set up to be a by the numbers sequel, but it and Raiden manage to break free of being just rehashes of their prior incarnation and make something unique for themself.

That might be a long read but you, Sir, have nailed it. My favourite ever game to this day.

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Trelliz
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Trelliz » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:25 pm

Rime - PS4

This did almost nothing to make me care about what was going on from the start - sure the visuals were nice but it quickly descended into flat-shaded caves which were pretty uninteresting. Once I got to the open sandy area where staying in the open gets you killed by the bird thing I had already mentally checked out and couldn't be bothered to carry on after getting nabbed by it a few times. I bank this along with everybody's gone to the rapture etc. in terms of what Karl eloquently described as a game which "blagged its way to 9s and 10s because it made wanky reviewers remember their dead dog and have a little cry (or whatever)."

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Zaichik
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Zaichik » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:51 am

I haven't given up on it yet, but I am considering giving the COD WWII campaign the flick. The whole thing is just so uninspiring and I am getting sick of the cheap deaths and bullet-sponge enemies who see you when they shouldn't be able to.

I almost broke my controller in frustration at the bit where you have to protect your team by sniping enemies from the church. Quite apart from the fact you seem to develop Parkinson's when using the sniper rifle, the German soldiers just keep getting up even if you shoot them in the head.

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Death's Head
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Death's Head » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:07 am

Only started this last night but will probably give up on it - Mr Shifty (PC). Can't remember how I got this (either free or part of a bundle), but basically represents everything I hate about some indie games - 8 bit style game play, unexciting graphics and utterly repetitive (admittedly only completed the first chapter but each one of those levels were the same thing over and over).

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Hime
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Hime » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:09 pm

Dishonoured 2

There is so much to like about this game, it looks incredible, the writing is good, the open areas are exeptional but I've started to find the trial and error gameplay, piss poor melee combat and awful/lack of map has really started to grate. I love this type of game, loved the first and started loving this but I haven't enjoyed any of the proper 'levels'. This game has introduced an awful new enemy type in the clockwork soldiers and I'm on level 8 which is littered with them and one hit kill machines, one of which has completely hindered my progressed with the only way to carry on to try and find an underground passage with only an onscreen marker. I'm so close to the end that I wanted try smash through to the completion but after working my way through the mansion only to randomly get killed and find the game hasn't saved any of my progressed, I've decided it's time to call it a day.

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Squinty
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Squinty » Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:33 pm

Hime wrote:Dishonoured 2

There is so much to like about this game, it looks incredible, the writing is good, the open areas are exeptional but I've started to find the trial and error gameplay, piss poor melee combat and awful/lack of map has really started to grate. I love this type of game, loved the first and started loving this but I haven't enjoyed any of the proper 'levels'. This game has introduced an awful new enemy type in the clockwork soldiers and I'm on level 8 which is littered with them and one hit kill machines, one of which has completely hindered my progressed with the only way to carry on to try and find an underground passage with only an onscreen marker. I'm so close to the end that I wanted try smash through to the completion but after working my way through the mansion only to randomly get killed and find the game hasn't saved any of my progressed, I've decided it's time to call it a day.


I found the game way harder than the original one. I have no idea how anyone could do a stealth run in it.

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Hime
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Hime » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:38 pm

Squinty wrote:I found the game way harder than the original one. I have no idea how anyone could do a stealth run in it.

Yeah I've never managed to get into any kind of rhythm other than teleoprt somewhere really high and try to distinguish the good guys from the bad.

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_/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by _/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:54 pm

downloaded Bloodbourne with PS Plus, 30 or so minutes later i gave up. not a good game at all.

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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by zXe » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:18 pm

Not the last game. But one I feel bad about but it killed my motivation. MGS V Phantom Pain the Mother Base Quarantine mission/chapter. So there's an illness going round your base and you have to manually search through your crew (there's a gooseberry fool tone of them at this point in the game) and work out which soldiers have this illness based on clues from the initial victims/sufferers in the medical bay/wing. Now when I first got to this part I had like no idea what I was meant to be doing really and soldiers kept dropping ill and dying if I recall correctly. Anyway I search online about it and find out that it's normal to lose like 40% or more of your mother base crew as well as losing any current developments you had going. When I saw this I just gave up because i'd invested so much time collecting resources, it seemed like a slap in the face. And I was just like ugh... cba to go through this.

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Death's Head
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PostRe: RE: Re: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Death's Head » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:45 pm

_/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ wrote:downloaded Bloodbourne with PS Plus, 30 or so minutes later i gave up. not a good game at all.
Tell us more about how it is not a good game.

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PostRe: RE: Re: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Tafdolphin » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:47 pm

Death's Head wrote:
_/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ wrote:downloaded Bloodbourne with PS Plus, 30 or so minutes later i gave up. not a good game at all.
Tell us more about how it is not a good game.


Well it was cheap, and going by the price it's not going to be anything special.

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Buffalo
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Buffalo » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:59 pm

Our very own thread on it must be 193 pages of people saying how awful it is, then. Thought so.

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PostRe: RE: Re: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Yubel » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:59 pm

Kirby Star Allies.

That tutorial level is just too savage.

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more heat than light
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by more heat than light » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:43 am

_/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ wrote:downloaded Bloodbourne with PS Plus, 30 or so minutes later i gave up. not a good game at all.


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Death's Head
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PostRe: RE: Re: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Death's Head » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:22 am

more heat than light wrote:
_/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ wrote:downloaded Bloodbourne with PS Plus, 30 or so minutes later i gave up. not a good game at all.


[img]https://m.popkey.co/1436af/Aoazq.gif[/img]
Nice explanation. So not for you/too hard rather than it is not a good game.

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Brerlappin
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PostRe: The last game you gave up on and your reasons + some gooseberry fool about MGS
by Brerlappin » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:50 am

Hime wrote:Dishonoured 2

There is so much to like about this game, it looks incredible, the writing is good, the open areas are exeptional but I've started to find the trial and error gameplay, piss poor melee combat and awful/lack of map has really started to grate. I love this type of game, loved the first and started loving this but I haven't enjoyed any of the proper 'levels'. This game has introduced an awful new enemy type in the clockwork soldiers and I'm on level 8 which is littered with them and one hit kill machines, one of which has completely hindered my progressed with the only way to carry on to try and find an underground passage with only an onscreen marker. I'm so close to the end that I wanted try smash through to the completion but after working my way through the mansion only to randomly get killed and find the game hasn't saved any of my progressed, I've decided it's time to call it a day.


I felt exactly like you did the first time I played D2. I gooseberry fool all OVER that game. Then after I had a little hissy fit I went back to it a few months later, and started over from scratch using Emily on high chaos. Let me tell you man that gooseberry fool is FUN AS strawberry float. Domino ability is just fantastic, and having a bit of knowledge of the maps made it even more fun. So much so that I eventually wound up loving D2 possibly even more than D1. I would honestly say just take a break for a bit, come back, and play as Emily and just don't give a strawberry float about stealth. Stealthy is probably the least fun way to play Dishonored. Some of the later levels are incredible too.


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