The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild GOTG

Hime wrote:

the eponymous bollock wrote:Care to enlighten anyone on what you think is annoying / bad design

-There are no dungeons, the best part of Zelda games and the area that showcases Nintendo's peerless design.
-The two bosses I've faced so far have been very poor.
-The weapon degradation is ridicoulous, most people's solution is to avoid confrontation all together because you might break your level 40 fire sword for some monster bits and a level 8 bat.
-There are puzzles and at least one boss* that require arrows to beat but the game doesn't ensure the player is equipped. Very unZelda like.
-There is a puzzle that requires shooting a fire arrow to light a torch on a moving platform. The game did not tell me that for some reason it didn't like me using stasis on said platform.
-The rain that hinders exploration. It looks nice but adds nothing.

The game is phenomenal and I love the exploration but I'm not sure I'm enjoying it anymore than I do in other open world games. The dungeons and boss fights that usually set these games apart aren't there.

*It is possible to beat the boss without arrows but apparently very difficult.

Have to say I agree with all of this. However, it's still an utterly brilliant game!

Karl wrote:I think the Divine Beasts are fairly weak if you take them as standalone entities and compare them to Temples in the other games. But if you think of them as big, special Shrines - in the context of the game having a hundred or more of them - I think it's a lot easier to understand what Nintendo were trying to achieve with them. I think BOTW has great puzzling and some very good combat moments, but it's just not presented in a comparable dungeon format.

Thing is once you factor in just how many of the shrines are combat ones or just a room with a reward etc. There are not over a hundred puzzle based shrines and some are so brief that they barely last longer then loading in and out. It made everything seem so bite sized and beyond filling a pointlessly large world I see no benefit for doing this. Plenty of Zeldas have optional hidden puzzles dotted around (often in caves) but they support the main dungeoning.

Beasts = Big special shine = barely a mini dungeon

Hime wrote:-The weapon degradation is ridicoulous, most people's solution is to avoid confrontation all together because you might break your level 40 fire sword for some monster bits and a level 8 bat.

This is actually a clever bit of self leveling the game does. It means if you find something OP for your area you cant be OP forever and you can always choose not to use it. I do agree that combat often becomes something to avoid. Like the enemy camps. Maybe the degradation for some items is too aggressive but the mechanic itself is right for BOTW.

I actually think the weapon degradation is a great feature, its an annoyance at first but once you add a couple of weapon slots youll never be weaponless but what it does do is force you to use weapons you never would otherwise. The whole game is about exploration and trying things, if your sword never broke then youd just use that sword all the time, having weapons break means youll occasionally have to use a spear or an axe or try out the elemental weapons. By using them and seeing how they work youre more likely to choose to use them in combat later on, instead of charging into a camp all over again maybe this time youll use a shock weapon to make everyone drop their gear before whipping out a hammer and finishing them off. Its a pain when you lose a powerful weapon but the game is pretty generous about giving you new ones so its not a huge deal in the long run and it ends up adding to the exploration and survival ethos of the game.

Being forced to experiment with different weapons isn't necessarily bad, I just don't think people would be so positive about it if it wasn't a Zelda/Nintendo game.

You find so many weapons that it doesn't matter.
I hated it to start with but it works well and means you are swapping for new stuff that gets progressivly stronger than sticking with something that is fine then suddenly just doesn't cut it and it is too late as I have found in other games in the past.

Your issues seems to be that it is different to other Zelda games, but that is point, it isn't supposed to be another one using the same formula, but moving on a bit and trying something different.

Hime wrote:- The rain that hinders exploration. It looks nice but adds nothing.

Personally I've quite liked the rain. It's made me explore more, looking for gentler inclines to scale rather than brute forcing sheer cliffs by pounding stamina-regenerating elixirs, and the few times I've encountered lighting storms have made me gooseberry fool myself inside out. It's environmental ornamentation that carries some negative side-effects for the player, but I have found it makes the world more engaging and alive.

Of course I'm not super-far into the game (maybe a couple of hours after first arriving at Hateno Village) so this viewpoint may change as I play the game more, but that won't be happening for a bit as my Switch's power supply has died. Amazon are replacing the item as a complete unit, which means I lose all my progress to date. Cheers Nintendo for not providing any way to transfer save data between Switch consoles or (heaven forfend) account-based cloud saves.

Hime wrote:-There are no dungeons, the best part of Zelda games and the area that showcases Nintendo's peerless design.

Instead the peerless design isn't hidden away in dungeons, its throughout the entire gameworld. There is no other game ever made that has world design anywhere near as good as BotW

Hime wrote:-The weapon degradation is ridicoulous, most people's solution is to avoid confrontation all together because you might break your level 40 fire sword for some monster bits and a level 8 bat.

But genuinely interesting and varied weapons are not hard to get your hands on in the game. Plus the degradation system is more detailed than you give it credit for, certain weapons will degrade really quickly if used for the wrong purpose. Use a wand as a melee weapon for example and it'll break quickly, use it as it is intended from a distance and you'll get quite a few charges out of it.

Hime wrote:-The rain that hinders exploration. It looks nice but adds nothing.

Wrong again, it alters the dynamics of the game in ways that make sense. Things become more slippery yes, but that doesn't just 'hinder exploration' it should change how you play the game. The whole weather system is another amazing part of the game design.

Whats the world coming to when you 100% agree with Hugo

HSH28 wrote:

Hime wrote:-There are no dungeons, the best part of Zelda games and the area that showcases Nintendo's peerless design.

Instead the peerless design isn't hidden away in dungeons, its throughout the entire gameworld. There is no other game ever made that has world design anywhere near as good as BotW

Hime wrote:-The weapon degradation is ridicoulous, most people's solution is to avoid confrontation all together because you might break your level 40 fire sword for some monster bits and a level 8 bat.

But genuinely interesting and varied weapons are not hard to get your hands on in the game. Plus the degradation system is more detailed than you give it credit for, certain weapons will degrade really quickly if used for the wrong purpose. Use a wand as a melee weapon for example and it'll break quickly, use it as it is intended from a distance and you'll get quite a few charges out of it.

Hime wrote:-The rain that hinders exploration. It looks nice but adds nothing.

Wrong again, it alters the dynamics of the game in ways that make sense. Things become more slippery yes, but that doesn't just 'hinder exploration' it should change how you play the game. The whole weather system is another amazing part of the game design.

I disagree.

Not sure how, but after a some lengthy inactivity I turned on the Wii U (about a week ago) to discover the external HDD had been wiped. Yep, lost my BOTW save.

The Wii U no longer recognised the HDD and would only allow me the option to format.

Bit of a bummer having some 70 odd hours go down the drain, but on the bright side I got to experience BOTW and made my £50 back via an Amazon sale.

Hugo certainly throws his opinion in your face lol.

The rain making things harder to climb is great. It does however rain far too much. I can't forget having to wait ages and ages to do a couple of torch related quests just because it decided to rain.

The climbing gear should really negate the weather.

Tip for climbing in the rain: climb 4-5 steps (more than 5 and there's a chance you'll slide down) and then jump, repeat. You'll slide only after every jump. Helps if you have upgraded climbing gear and/or lots of stamina.

darksideby182 wrote:Hugo certainly throws his opinion in your face lol.

In the case of Hugo though, and certainly in the many years I've been coming here on and off, one thing remains a constant: Hugo's inability to differentiate opinion from fact.

I agree with everything Hugo says there.

Oddly I agree with Hugo on that post but it's the way it comes across with the use of "wrong"
Lol at gemini.

The Watching Artist wrote:The rain making things harder to climb is great. It does however rain far too much. I can't forget having to wait ages and ages to do a couple of torch related quests just because it decided to rain.

The climbing gear should really negate the weather.

See I just cannot imagine anyone thinking that is a great feature in any other game. Same with the weapon degradation, the fact that so many people say that they just don't bother taking on camps of enemies means there is an issue with the system.

The quality of the map doesn't come close to compensating for the lack of dungeons either, I've seen a lot of empty fields at this point in gaming.

The Watching Artist wrote:
The climbing gear should really negate the weather.

This.

Slipping in the rain to impede progress is a great idea, but it could've been balanced out a little better given how much it does rain in BOTW.

When it does rain in BOTW, though, it's wonderfully atmospheric.

Hime wrote:

The Watching Artist wrote:The rain making things harder to climb is great. It does however rain far too much. I can't forget having to wait ages and ages to do a couple of torch related quests just because it decided to rain.

The climbing gear should really negate the weather.

See I just cannot imagine anyone thinking that is a great feature in any other game. Same with the weapon degradation, the fact that so many people say that they just don't bother taking on camps of enemies means there is an issue with the system.

The quality of the map doesn't come close to compensating for the lack of dungeons either, I've seen a lot of empty fields at this point in gaming.

Honestly I think quite a lot could be solved by simply having a smaller map. People start to skip camps of enemies because of a real lack of reward (as well as the outright tedium of seeing the same enemies again and again) but the uncertainty you will get a replacement weapon (or something else thats interesting) makes it worse. The issue isn't that weapons degrade, its providing a reason to actually fight. If your weapon didn't degrade would you still clear the 1,000th camp of Bokoblins? What if some of the camps had a Korok that popped out of the chest? What if in the chest at the end was a key that unlocked a shrine? That way loosing your weapons actually means something.

I do sort of agree on the world map. The empty fields are fine actually, you need this to pace things. But its not really a replacement for dungeons. I loved the GP, and how it forced you to think about how to get about in it. Chopping trees for bridges is a great idea which feels like an organic solution to a puzzle. But once you get all the runes and the glider you rarely need to get this creative. Most of the barriers become skippable by just climbing and gliding. So it does become all a bit samey. Whereas in dungeons in past games they challenge you with a variety of tools in a variety of ways all across the game. The truly interesting bits of puzzle solving in the world are sadly few and far between. Which wouldn't matter so much to me if the game featured at least one dungeon. The world is amazing though. No doubt.

Also swimming is crap and its quicker to just use Cryonis to keep building blocks to glide from.

Gemini73 wrote:

The Watching Artist wrote:
The climbing gear should really negate the weather.

This.

Quite a lot of the gear really bugs me tbh. Why do the Snow Boots not keep you warm? Who designs boots for snow that don't keep you warm!?

There are a lot of holes that can be picked in BOTW, but folk can be a little bit precious about it.