The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)

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Lucien
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Lucien » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:39 pm

Meep wrote:
Lucien wrote:
Meep wrote:I won't take any "pro-gamer" seriously if they play FPS with a controller.


I'm sure they are all devastated. :fp:


It's just ridiculous for someone to try and present themselves as one of the best at something whilst using completely the wrong tools for the job. It would be a like claiming to be a professional runner and walking up to the starting line in hiking boots.


Can't you see how elitist and subjective that is? If people want to go to a competition where they are all using controllers, or all using an Atari stick, it doesn't matter. There will be better and worse competitors regardless of the tool used.
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Karl
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Karl » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:24 pm

Playing an FPS with a controller is a bit like playing the drums with two cucumbers: if you're a good musician it would probably still be OK, but it's obviously just not going to sound as good as if you were playing properly.
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Super Dragon 64
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Super Dragon 64 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:58 pm

Captain Kinopio wrote:
Harry Bizzle wrote:
Meep wrote:I won't take any "pro-gamer" seriously if they play FPS with a controller.





I don't think KBM is going to help.


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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Photek » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:13 pm

Karl wrote:I would literally rather die than play an FPS with a controller.

Erm...wat?
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Fatal Exception » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:16 pm

The price isn't actually bad considering how high end that controller is. Would most people pay that? No. But this isn't for most people, it's for the ultra hardcore and pro gamers.
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CitizenErased
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by CitizenErased » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:56 pm

Fatal Exception wrote:The price isn't actually bad considering how high end that controller is. Would most people pay that? No. But this isn't for most people, it's for the ultra hardcore and pro gamers.


Exactly. The people actually moaning about this don't have an interest in it and that is perfectly fine, but there is a market for this kind of stuff.
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Monkey Man
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Monkey Man » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:01 pm

The companion App for the controller is shown at 38mins onwards here -

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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by ITSMILNER » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:31 pm

I'm proper tempted by this...that pricepoint tho
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Saint of Killers » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:13 pm

Amazon had it down for around £70. Unfortunately it was a pricing error and so they won't be fulfilling those orders.
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Monkey Man » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:06 am



Shows the Elite Controller at the start.

Sold out on Amazon but seems like you can get it at Game for £120, you might beable to get it cheaper elsewhere - http://www.game.co.uk/en/elite-wireless ... one-667133
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Fries. Wedges. Crisps? » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:35 am

Karl wrote:Playing an FPS with a controller is a bit like playing the drums with two cucumbers: if you're a good musician it would probably still be OK, but it's obviously just not going to sound as good as if you were playing properly.


That implies that a controller is less capable of performing the task of being a viable input device for a videogame than a keyboard in mouse (as, clearly, a cucumber is not as capable of performing the task of being an object with which to play some drums as an actual drumstick!), but can you actually claim with any certainty that a keyboard and mouse is a more capable input device with which to navigate a videogame? And if so, how? Or is this just an opinion that you have based on your own personal preference for the use of keyboard and mouse?
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Rax
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Rax » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:44 am

A mouse is a better input device for aiming in an FPS than an analogue stick, this is an unavoidable fact of life.
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by jiggles » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:48 am

A mouse is certainly a more capable input device than a thumbstick for aiming because it's a 1:1 device. When aiming with a controller, it's more like you're *pushing* the view around with the sticks than it following your movements. Move the cursor around on any console's web browser and compare that to how it feels to move the cursor on your PC. It's an objectively inferior way to aim it.

Though, it must be noted, there's nothing wrong with console first-person shooters. They compensate by applying a level of aim assist so that your intentions can be reflected without getting caught up in messy execution. And online, everybody's using a controller, so there's no imbalance. But if you're playing with a controller in the same environment as players who have a whole other level of aiming freedom, you're going to get destroyed, because you've severely handicapped yourself.
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Fries. Wedges. Crisps? » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:54 am

But surely there is nothing stopping controllers from also being 1:1, other than the way they're set up?

jiggles wrote:Move the cursor around on any console's web browser and compare that to how it feels to move the cursor on your PC. It's an objectively inferior way to aim it.


Good comparison - but why is it that this movement of a cursor is easier? Surely if the movement of the cursor by the controller was sped up so as to be the same as the speed of that of a standard mouse, and the user was similarly experienced in this kind of navigation as most users are with a mouse, then the resultant input/output would be the exact same?
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by jiggles » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:11 pm

Dan. wrote:But surely there is nothing stopping controllers from also being 1:1, other than the way they're set up?

jiggles wrote:Move the cursor around on any console's web browser and compare that to how it feels to move the cursor on your PC. It's an objectively inferior way to aim it.


Good comparison - but why is it that this movement of a cursor is easier? Surely if the movement of the cursor by the controller was sped up so as to be the same as the speed of that of a standard mouse, and the user was similarly experienced in this kind of navigation as most users are with a mouse, then the resultant input/output would be the exact same?


No, it's nothing to do with speed, it's the fact that when you move a mouse, you're essentially telling the cursor "move here", whereas if you do the same with a thumbstick, you're telling the cursor "move in this direction". If you move a mouse to the right then back to the centre, your cursor is back where you started, but if you do it with a thumbstick, it's where you left it, off to the right. You could, in theory, change the aiming method so that it's "offset from centre", but then if you wanted to turn right and move in that direction, you'd have to keep holding the stick to the right, and that'd be a mess. Not to mention you'd be bound to look in a circular shape, and you couldn't spin around over and over on the spot to track someone strafing around you. Another issue is that 1:1 movement is easier to control from the wrist to the elbow than with the fingers and thumbs. It's why laptop trackpads feel so spudgy compared to a mouse. The sensitivity has to be turned way down to be usable.
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Fries. Wedges. Crisps? » Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:34 pm

jiggles wrote:when you move a mouse, you're essentially telling the cursor "move here", whereas if you do the same with a thumbstick, you're telling the cursor "move in this direction"


But my point is this is everything to do with speed, because in both cases you're telling the cursor to move in this direction - the difference is that the mouse cursor will get to its intended endpoint far, far faster.

All your other points are interesting and not necessarily things I'd considered before - the wrist being a more viable and intuitive limb for 1:1 movement than the digits, for example, which is very true. But I still think that it's not implausible for controllers to somehow be modified and calibrated in a way that allows for similar reaction speed and sensitivity. If we were all raised to play games with these types of controllers in the same way we're raised to use mice as point-and-click input devices then I'd wager the resultant FPS-playing-ability would be the same.

However, these factors are not the case (yet? Probably never) and so I have to concede that yours is a good argument, well put, and I see and agree with your point of view.
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Monkey Man
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Monkey Man » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:29 am

If you're having trouble finding the controller (it's sold out at Amazon, MS Store etc) they're increasing production -

“We’re thrilled at the amount of interest we’ve received for the Xbox Elite Wireless Controller,” a Microsoft spokesperson told GamesBeat. “We are working quickly to get more units of the Xbox Elite Wireless Controller in the hands of fans, and look forward to replenishing inventory in time for the holidays.”

“We are always looking for ways to bring the best experiences to all of our fans on Xbox,” said the spokesperson. “And the excitement and interest from gamers for the Xbox Elite Wireless Controller has been overwhelming.”

http://venturebeat.com/2015/10/27/xbox- ... -sold-out/

The GAF Official Thread is pretty good if you're interested - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1130078
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Monkey Man » Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:37 pm

Microsoft Elite Controller vs Razer Wildcat: the Digital Foundry verdict

The standard Xbox One controller provides a solid base, and works well across a wide range of titles, but there's plenty of room for enhancement and this is where premium controllers really add value. The bottom line is that both of these pads are clearly superior to the standard controller, and do indeed improve gameplay, connecting you more closely to the experience.

The Razer Wildcat offers up a touch more refinement in terms of responsiveness and general control over the standard Xbox One pad and the default Elite controller set-up. It's a great pad and works very well, with its lightweight build quality and extra features improving the way shooting and racing games play. The built in audio controls are also a nice touch absent on Microsoft's official controllers. However, it doesn't quite pack all the features required to transform the gameplay experience in all areas. This is something the Elite controller achieves beautifully.

Boasting a much wider range of customisable parts and more granular adjustments for sensitivity, the Xbox One Elite controller is the superior pad all round and quite possibly the best pad money can buy right now. It offers up more features and better build quality at a similar price-point to the Razer Wildcat, and nothing else really comes close. Here, the ability to swap out analogue sticks and adjust sensitivity is a real game changer, actually helping to make us into better players as a result.

On the whole, the Wildcat is still a good alternative for those who primarily play FPS titles, but if you're in the market for a high-end controller for both Xbox One and PC gaming, and one that provides superb results on a range of gaming genres, the Elite is quite possibly the best on the market right now. While the high price-point will be a barrier to entry to many, the improvement to gameplay is certainly worthwhile, and those heavily invested in competitive play would be wise to consider the benefits.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... er-wildcat
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by _/\_YUNGSTAR_/\_ » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:24 pm

nearly bought an Elite system (to replace my faulty x1 that has wireless joypad connection issues), but decided to wait until E3 to see if MS release slim or upgraded X1. will get the pad then.
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Harry Bizzle
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PostRe: The most insane thing at E3 (£130 controller)
by Harry Bizzle » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:49 pm

It's a good pad but I find myself using my normal pad more often. Weighs less.

And I certainly can't be bothered with fiddling with stick sensitivity settings.
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