The Obesity Thread

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Dig Dug
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Dig Dug » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:41 pm

Think the first step to fixing the problem is to set examples. I know people who talk about getting healthy and yet still buy crap like sweets, biscuits, crisps and chocolate when shopping. Why? Surely the fact you are paying for it is enough to make you say "okay, lets spend less on/stop buying treats".

It also makes me think about parents too, what benefit is there in buying your kids bags of sweets? I know they like them but just because someone likes something doesn't mean they should have it, get them hooked on a different food, get them hooked on raw carrots or something (strawberry floating love raw carrots).

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Fatal Exception
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Fatal Exception » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:42 pm

Just see how many fat chicks order 'diet cokes'.

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Meep
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Meep » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:11 pm

That's sort of the long and short of how I view diet and low cal products; they are a way of obtaining the pretense of health without actually doing anything to stem the problem of your consumption. If you eat properly there's no reason to ever buy those things in the first place. In that respect they may do more harm than good as they take away incentive to adopt an actual healthy diet.

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Fatal Exception
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Fatal Exception » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:16 pm

Meep wrote:That's sort of the long and short of how I view diet and low cal products; they are a way of obtaining the pretense of health without actually doing anything to stem the problem of your consumption. If you eat properly there's no reason to ever buy those things in the first place. In that respect they may do more harm than good as they take away incentive to adopt an actual healthy diet.


Exactly. Why the strawberry float are fat banana splits eating 'diet chocolate pudding' and the like? Just don't eat it regularly! You get into the habit of having those daily 'treats' on your diet plan then switch to full cal once you've lost the weight, put it back on, then switch onto diet foods again. It's the trap the health food companies want to force you into.

Also health foods (with the exception of M&S) seem to be very high in carbs. This means you'll actually lose weight slower than lower or balanced carb meals. Which of course the people selling the low calorie meals want.

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Igor
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Igor » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:32 pm

I'm addicted to clementines at the moment. Is that bad?

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Finiarél
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Finiarél » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:40 pm

Fatties ruining things for everyone! They should just put a tax on them, pop into Asda for your shopping, when you get to the till with your haul of goodies if the cashier thinks you're tubby, they should charge extra. That'll give them an incentive to put down the cakes too. Bloody fatties.

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Slartibartfast
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Slartibartfast » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:42 pm

25% of adults are obese apparently. That's a pretty shambolic state of affairs. People only reliably respond to upfront cost, so tax would be the most straight forward way.

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Memento Mori
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Memento Mori » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:15 pm

Igor wrote:I'm addicted to clementines at the moment. Is that bad?

Clementines are bad satsumas.

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Mini E
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Mini E » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:28 pm

Lucien wrote:You know what would be better? Personalised prices. An increasing scale of price, until at about 20 stone or something, cake costs you £9,000.



I like this idea.


By 2020 half of all children in the UK are predicted to be obese. It's ridiculous.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Knoyleo » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:34 pm

Poser wrote:I would like to propose a personal lifetime budget/allowance for healthcare for conditions that are self imposed: ie smoking related, drugs related, skin cancer from sunbathing (as opposed to working outdoors), obesity, suicide attempts, etc.

Once you reach your limit, you either pay for more yourself, or you go without. Where children under 16 are required to have treatment, it comes out the parents' budget.

People with legit illnesses continue to receive full NHS care.


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Oh wow, get a load of this strawberry floating braindead waste of skin.

"Well, as this is the fourth time you've attempted to kill yourself, rather than provide you with the mental health care you clearly need, we're actually going to refuse you treatment entirely. Good luck pumping those painkillers out of your stomach all by yourself. Oh, and I think there's some old thread and needles in the bin outside if you want to fix up your arms, too. You can settle up your fee for use of the ambulance to get here with the receptionist, then I suggest you tip the cleaners generously after the mess you've made all over our floor."

The NHS is there as a safety net for everyone in society, regardless of what's caused their conditions. Costs of smoking and alcohol related illness are already contributed towards at point of purchase in additional duty, so you're now proposing charging people twice for these treatments. Getting sufferers of addiction or suicidal tendencies to seek treatment can be difficult enough as it is, without them having to worry about using up some arbitrary healthcare allowance. Treatment of these conditions earlier rather than later benefits society as a whole, sufferers, their families, friends and colleagues all benefit, and can save future treatment costs, so seeking treatment should be encouraged, not penalised by fining the patient. You honestly think that the threat of forfeiting healthcare is really going to be anything close the first thing going through the mind of someone who's found their life in such a state that they're developing a drug habit or attempting to kill themselves? All you're doing is heaping more problems on to people who are in desperate need of help, and driving them away from the services that are not only best suited to help them, but which were also set up just for people like that. That's the idea behind universal healthcare, a National Health Service. That's there to help the nation, and it's people. Someone doesn't become any less a part of society simply because you don't approve of what they do to their body.

Furthermore, where do you draw the line at what is or isn't a self imposed healthcare condition? Why aren't people who work outdoors being made to pay for their skin cancer treatments, they chose to work outdoors. What about people who move voluntarily to areas of high pollution? Should they also pay for their respiratory diseases? How about people who willingly take on dangerous jobs, people who put themselves in to high stress conditions, or people who maybe partake in extreme sports for fun? Society as a whole benefits from people doing all sorts of dangerous or mildly harmful things at times. Smoking and drinking allow people to relax, and some people simply enjoy those activities. Dangerous jobs need doing, as do particularly stressful activities, even though stress can be of major detriment to health. People enjoy partaking in extreme sports, and often do so perfectly safely. Should all these people forego activities they otherwise enjoy for fear of using up their health allowance? Do we begin charging the homosexual community for treatment of HIV and AIDS because they are higher risk?

I hate fatties as much as any right thinking person, but I'd never dream of denying them the right to do what they want with their own body, or denying them the same access to help that everyone else is able to receive.



tl;dr:

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pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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Cyburn2
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Cyburn2 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:40 pm

People ordered Diet Coke or other diet pop, when ordering a butt-load of pizza/KFC :fp:


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Mini E
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Mini E » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:43 pm

In 2010/11, there were 211,783 hospital admissions with a mention of obesity (i.e. a primary or a secondary diagnosis).

The Net Ingredient Cost (NIC) is the basic cost of a drug, not taking into account discounts, dispensing costs, fees or prescription charges income. The total NIC for drugs for the treatment of obesity increased from £6.6 million in 2000 to £36.9 million in 2010, reaching its peak in 2007 at £51.6 million.

People with underlying medical conditions which have caused the obesity- okay. People who have obesity which has caused the medical conditoins - why should that come out of the tax payers money when it could be used in other areas of the NHS fighting diseases which aren't almost entirely self inflicted?

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Dual
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Dual » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:44 pm

let them eat cake

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Finiarél
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Finiarél » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:53 pm

I'm going to get the most vile kebab on the way home tonight. This thread makes me hungry.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Knoyleo » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:53 pm

Mini E wrote:People with underlying medical conditions which have caused the obesity- okay. People who have obesity which has caused the medical conditoins - why should that come out of the tax payers money when it could be used in other areas of the NHS fighting diseases which aren't almost entirely self inflicted?

Who are we to decide which self-inflicted conditions are or are not worthy of NHS treatment? If fatties don't get free healthcare, then Poser's idiot scenario of "pick and choose" healthcare may as well become reality. The reason the NHS works is because it's universal, and doesn't marginalise people when they're in need of care.*

By all means, educate, and encourage healthier lifestyles, but using the threat of massive medical bills to ward people off stuff we don't like is not the way to do it. Not only is it not likely to be effective, it would probably exacerbate problems, as it would discourage people from seeking treatment. What exactly do you hope to achieve by bankrupting the obese? It's not a solution to the problem of obesity, it's just washing your hands of the issue, and penalising those who find themselves in need of care, even if they did eat their own way there.

*This is when the system works as it should. Sadly as has been demonstrated time and again, there are many professionals within the system incapable of separating their personal prejudice from their job, failing to provide adequate care to patients that need it, be they the elderly, the overweight, the mentally ill, etc.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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Poser
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Poser » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:57 pm

Knoyleo - I sense I may have touched a nerve.

Firstly, I was being ironic, as I clarified about two posts later. It's a patently ridiculous idea. Feel free to browse my post history to get get a sense of my tone and propensity to put forward bullshit to get a reaction.

Secondly, the only bit of your insane post I've read were the jpegs. Sorry to have wasted your time.

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Harry Bizzle
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Harry Bizzle » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:08 pm

Lotus wrote:Guy on the radio saying that being obsese is just in our instincts, as we want to store up fat. :dread:


This is true. It is also probably why we like salty food (prior to moving stuff around, food high in sodium was not really available if you didn't live on a coast line).


People need to learn about caloric intake and how it effects weight gain and loss. People will not stop eating the foods which are "bad," but you can modify perception of perception of food and what's in it by teaching them more about it. This is why a lot of overweight claim to hardly eat anything and yet not loose weight - they eat extremely calorie dense foods.


"Fill your plate with greens and yadda yadda yadda" is bloody nonsense and doesn't take into account living in the real world.

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Lotus
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Lotus » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:22 pm

Harry Bizzle wrote:
Lotus wrote:Guy on the radio saying that being obsese is just in our instincts, as we want to store up fat. :dread:


This is true.

Really? It's the first time I've ever heard it used as an excuse for being overweight, and personally I've never felt the urge to over-eat to store up fat. It might be something that we had in the past, but surely these days it's irrelevant. Even if the instinct is still there, you can hardly use it as a justification for being overweight or obese.

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kommissarboris
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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by kommissarboris » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Thats mental.

I don't want to be fat :cry:

I want to be a bad ass robot with lasers and fists the size of 3 human fists, and tracks, strawberry float this leg malarky, strawberry floating tank tracks.

Not in my life time though.

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PostRe: The Obesity Thread
by Gemini73 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:33 pm

I've put on a lot of weight over the last 10 years, but here's the thing - I know it's my fault. I'm the only person to blame for my increased weight.

Now I'm training again, riding to work every day, I've stopped drinking alcohol, and while I still like to eat crap I've balanced it out with healthier options.

I'm now losing weight and getting fitter as a result.

Taxing fizzy drinks won't make a blind bit of difference. Maybe ditching the shop-mobile and walking to the shops might be a good start for some people.


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