The Official Labour Unity Thread: Corbyn re-elected as leader

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KK
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by KK » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:19 pm

Lib Dems coming out with some absolute nonsense...

BBC News wrote:Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron says Jeremy Corbyn's re-election means that Labour "continues to be dominated by ineffectual leaders".

Lib Dems are real opposition to Brexit Gov.

Something about pot kettle and self delusion.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Moggy » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:19 pm

Fatal Exception wrote:UKIP won't gain any ground unless brexit isn't as horrible as they want. Without Fromage they'll fade into obscurity.


With the massive lurch to the right we are seeing in the world (brexit, Trump, le pen, the "alt-right") at the moment, I fear you are very very wrong.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by captain red dog » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:22 pm

I think it's good for democracy to have a more left Labour party. The problem we have had is that New Labour and the Conservatives were virtually indistinguishable. So yeah sure you had two party's that could be elected but the reality was there was no difference between your choice.

Now I know some of the more right wing Labour and Tory voters will consider this a choice between the well run Tories or chaos in Labour, but I will at least consider this as a choice between more of the same or a shot at trying something different.

As for the PLP, they need to listen to a very clear message from the membership and now work towards making the party electable on policies that the membership want.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Rocsteady » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:22 pm

Worse case scenario is that Labour do so poorly that the split of vote goes towards how it is here in Hungary, where the conservatives are in power and the second party are little better than a bunch of neo-nazis.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Memento Mori » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:45 pm

Turkeys in voting for Christmas shocker.


Moggy wrote:
Fatal Exception wrote:UKIP won't gain any ground unless brexit isn't as horrible as they want. Without Fromage they'll fade into obscurity.


With the massive lurch to the right we are seeing in the world (brexit, Trump, le pen, the "alt-right") at the moment, I fear you are very very wrong.


I suspect that UKIP is done for now but that will result in UKIP members going back to the conservatives and Theresa May drifting rightwards. She's not going to hold an election until the boundary changes come through which favour the conservatives.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Moggy » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:15 pm

Memento Mori wrote:Turkeys in voting for Christmas shocker.


Moggy wrote:
Fatal Exception wrote:UKIP won't gain any ground unless brexit isn't as horrible as they want. Without Fromage they'll fade into obscurity.


With the massive lurch to the right we are seeing in the world (brexit, Trump, le pen, the "alt-right") at the moment, I fear you are very very wrong.


I suspect that UKIP is done for now but that will result in UKIP members going back to the conservatives and Theresa May drifting rightwards. She's not going to hold an election until the boundary changes come through which favour the conservatives.


It all depends on what brexit means. If we still have freedom on movement then UKIP are going to carry on exploiting the traditional Labour vote and may gain even more ground as Labour continues to collapse and the Lib Dems continue to be punished for Clegg.

Even with "hard brexit", this country will still need large numbers of immigrants coming in, which will continue to fuel the far (meaning further than the Tories) right parties.

The West is in one of those periods where immigrants are getting the blame for everything and I don't see that stopping for quite some time. :cry:
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Eighthours » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:25 pm

DML wrote:Corbyn has a chance. Owen does not. At least the former stands for something.


Owen Smith had an absolutely terrible strategy - trying to convince Labour members that an obviously Blairite moderate in fact believed in Jeremy Corbyn's policy platform wholeheartedly and was merely a more media-friendly version of Jez who had more chance of winning. No one believed him because it was a totally obvious lie. If Smith had been honest from the start, the vote would probably have been closer.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by lex-man » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:45 pm

From the state of this thread, I think I'm going to start investing in Hugo Boss. As it seems be becoming more popular.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Lucien » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:03 pm

Moggy wrote:
Fatal Exception wrote:UKIP won't gain any ground unless brexit isn't as horrible as they want. Without Fromage they'll fade into obscurity.


With the massive lurch to the right we are seeing in the world (brexit, Trump, le pen, the "alt-right") at the moment, I fear you are very very wrong.


Brexit wasn't a right or left movement.

I think UKIP will keep getting votes (albeit a lot less) so long as the other parties are seen as pro-EU.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Moggy » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:12 pm

Lucien wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Fatal Exception wrote:UKIP won't gain any ground unless brexit isn't as horrible as they want. Without Fromage they'll fade into obscurity.


With the massive lurch to the right we are seeing in the world (brexit, Trump, le pen, the "alt-right") at the moment, I fear you are very very wrong.


Brexit wasn't a right or left movement.


Of course not.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Knoyleo » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:23 pm

It could be either, but realistically, it'll be a left one, because that way, we only have to go through Ireland and cast off into the Atlantic. If it's a right movement, we have to plough through the whole of Europe, and nestle ourselves in by the baltic states, near Russia, and I can't imagine those complaining about the Eastern European migrants would be happy to see us move closer to them.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by NickSCFC » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:28 pm

Fatal Exception wrote:
NickSCFC wrote:RIP Labour


Because your party won't be successful if you aren't an awful banana split who wants the poor to die?


Look at voting history in this country, left leaning Labour leaders like Foot, Kinnock and Miliband are simply unelectable.

Blair knew this and took Labour in a centrist direction, hey presto, he won election after election.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Fatal Exception » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:48 pm

NickSCFC wrote:
Fatal Exception wrote:
NickSCFC wrote:RIP Labour


Because your party won't be successful if you aren't an awful banana split who wants the poor to die?


Look at voting history in this country, left leaning Labour leaders like Foot, Kinnock and Miliband are simply unelectable.

Blair knew this and took Labour in a centrist direction, hey presto, he won election after election.


It depends entirely on the circumstances of the world at the time. Milliband wasn't left leaning at all. He was centre right, although slightly left of Blair. The trouble we have at the moment is that the political landscape has drifted so far to the right that anyone left of centre is considered to be some kind of Marxist Dictator. It was a joke that the Murdoch press called Ed Milliband "Red Ed" when he wasn't nearly left wing enough for me to consider voting for him.

The lefts problem at the moment is selling their ideology to the working class. It's a lot easier to blame foreigners and people who are even more poor than it is to explain how our economy is rigged to help the rich get richer and keep the poor in their place.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by NickSCFC » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:56 pm

Perhaps if you were to turn off Channel 4 News and put down that copy of the Guardian and go outside you'll realise that we're not a country of Palestine sympathising arts students relying on food banks and worrying about LGBT rights.

The VAST majority of Britons don't give a flying strawberry float about the above, as harsh as it sounds. Most care about 'keeping up with the Jones', getting a better job, the value of their house and being strawberry floated over by the taxman.

When the Tories are doing a better job of appealing to these people than you then you've got a strawberry floating problem.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Somebody Else's Problem » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:02 pm

So basically we're irredeemably right wing? I can't accept that. I can't live in a country like that.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Fatal Exception » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:03 pm

I choose to believe that a lot of (at least 48% ;-))of the country aren't selfish banana splits. I'll always vote for what I believe is right. Winning by voting for right wing policies would be a hollow victory.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Tineash » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:19 pm

Fatal Exception wrote:It was a joke that the Murdoch press called Ed Milliband "Red Ed" when he wasn't nearly left wing enough for me to consider voting for him.


God, this is an enormously frustrating and self-defeating attitude.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by NickSCFC » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:20 pm

Fatal Exception wrote:I choose to believe that a lot of (at least 48% ;-))of the country aren't selfish banana splits. I'll always vote for what I believe is right. Winning by voting for right wing policies would be a hollow victory.


Fair play, but if your party won't make the odd compromise to appeal to the masses in order to, you know, actually be electable then you may as well wipe your arse on your ballot paper instead.

I'm from Stoke which has always been staunchly Labour, but not any more, we kicked our Labour council out last year and the independents are doing a great job.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Memento Mori » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:22 pm

Tineash wrote:
Fatal Exception wrote:It was a joke that the Murdoch press called Ed Milliband "Red Ed" when he wasn't nearly left wing enough for me to consider voting for him.


God, this is an enormously frustrating and self-defeating attitude.

It's essentially the same reasoning as not voting for alternate vote because it wasn't proportional representation. Progress is slow, you need to grab whatever some increment you can get.
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread - Corbyn loses no confidence vote
by Lucien » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:26 pm

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:So basically we're irredeemably right wing? I can't accept that. I can't live in a country like that.


I think it's far more plausible that people today will vote for the candidate and party they think are best (overall) at any one time, without "left vs right" coming into it all the time.

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