The Official Labour Unity Thread: Corbyn re-elected as leader

[Eighthours]

intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate.

It was not 52% of the electorate, it was 52% of the votes cast.

OK, fair enough, but even so, it's 52% of the engaged electorate. Basing arguments on the views of people that didn't vote won't get us anywhere.

Every political party doesn't represent someone. Labour don't represent entrepreneurs (at the moment), the Tories don't represent poor people, the Greens don't represent Top Gear viewer, the SNP don't represent those who believe in the Union, UKIP don't represent immigrants, etc etc.

The Lib Dems are simply making a politically opportunistic gamble to try to kickstart a revival of their fortunes. It's obvious that they would get nowhere under the previously anonymous Farron regime.

[Wrathy]

intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate.

It was not 52% of the electorate, it was 52% of the votes cast.

OK, fair enough, but even so, it's 52% of the engaged electorate. Basing arguments on the views of people that didn't vote won't get us anywhere.

Given that a significant number of seats are won with much less than 52% of the vote in a constituency, there's a solid argument that it'll get the Lib Dems a massive push.

[Herdanos]

Corbyn ran with the message "the EU isn't ideal, it needs change, but we're better placed to make those changed from within than without", which was the view of the majority of the electorate. Now that we're looking at the realistic possibility of a GE, why Labour see Corbyn as a liability and not an asset baffles me. To do a Lib Dem and say you'll run on a Remain platform is utterly ridiculous - democracy does not mean re-running the election until you get the result you want and for the Lib Dems to say they'll try and keep the UK in the EU means they're standing on a platform of intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate. Madness. I hate IDS but he's right in a way - the next PM should be someone who understands the argument for Leaving. Corbyn is the the best Labour option.

This.

As a lifelong Eurosceptic, Jezza is probably someone best placed to make the most of a post EU Britain, rather than a Tory party who will use it as an attempt to carve up the country. Finally the freedom to renationalise without breaching EU law, save steel, especially now buyers are fleeing in their droves post Brexit.

If the majority of Labour MPs are insistent on disregarding the voice of party members, they need to give up their seats, and strawberry float off to other parties.

This is the time for Labour to make a full return to the left, rather than continue to flirt around with the centre right in some attempt at populism that leaves an entirely empty space on the left of the political spectrum.

But what's the point of being a party of protest forever, as that's what would happen? You have to get elected in order to help the people you're supposedly worrying about. Deliberately embarking on a path that will certainly not get you elected is unconscionable if you actually believe in social justice. This is what weirds me out about some Labour supporters at the moment.

You're missing my point. I'm saying a Corbyn led Labour is electable under the current political climate. Corbyn can outline the Labour case for a post-EU Britain. Doing so will resonate with the working and middle class voters who voted for Brexit, who won't like the look of the coming Conservative Cabinet, while he will still be able to pick up the votes of the Labour support from the young and educated, who will be mortified at the prospect of a Boris/May/Gove/Fox etc. government. Corbyn as a principled Eurosceptic is an asset to Labour in a possible election, because the country has just come out against Europe. The game has changed. If either the Lib Dems or Labour run with a leader who will appear to try and prevent or delay the UK's exit from the EU, they will hand the victory to the Conservatives.

[Lex-Man]

Corbyn ran with the message "the EU isn't ideal, it needs change, but we're better placed to make those changed from within than without", which was the view of the majority of the electorate. Now that we're looking at the realistic possibility of a GE, why Labour see Corbyn as a liability and not an asset baffles me. To do a Lib Dem and say you'll run on a Remain platform is utterly ridiculous - democracy does not mean re-running the election until you get the result you want and for the Lib Dems to say they'll try and keep the UK in the EU means they're standing on a platform of intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate. Madness. I hate IDS but he's right in a way - the next PM should be someone who understands the argument for Leaving. Corbyn is the the best Labour option.

Why would there be a general election?

Ok because the government would call for one. I kind of hope they don't as we really need to actually deal with what's happening at the moment.

[Hexx]

I think the problem Corbyn's going to have (and there's some horrendous generalization here) is that most of Lab's core "working class" vote are really terrible socialists.

They want decent benefits, a working NHS, a citizens support network such as council houses, jobs, fair taxes etc - but primarily for themselves first and foremost, with other people secondary. (Look at working class support for Brexit and some of the perceived issues they had).

Lab started out as "better XXXX for working class people" (it's in the name) and it's altruistically expanded that to "better XXX for all" - but it's moved away from it's core voters as a result who feel neglected and unsupported..

But then these are also people often at (or feel to be at) the bottom of the pile, sometimes close the breadline/living hand to mouth - it's not exactly unexpected for them to want to look out for themselves first.

Corbyn (and most of his supporters) seem to live in a comfortable middle class/upper middle class bubble - lots of noble ideas for all - but that doesn't always appeal to "narrow minded" (I don't mind that derogatory here - but they're focused on smaller subset of personal issues) voters. (As a metaphor think of Guardian vs the Sun).

That's not to say Blair/Blairites would have any more appeal - but there's a reason UKIP/Leave did so well in traditionally Lab areas...and I'm not sure Corbyn is the solution to that.

[Irene Demova]

intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate.

It was not 52% of the electorate, it was 52% of the votes cast.

OK, fair enough, but even so, it's 52% of the engaged electorate. Basing arguments on the views of people that didn't vote won't get us anywhere.

Given that a significant number of seats are won with much less than 52% of the vote in a constituency, there's a solid argument that it'll get the Lib Dems a massive push.

Lib Dems won't get a push because they're still lying strawberry floaters, only difference now is that they also have a leader none of their potential voters would vote for.
Don't be delusional

[Knoyleo]

Corbyn ran with the message "the EU isn't ideal, it needs change, but we're better placed to make those changed from within than without", which was the view of the majority of the electorate. Now that we're looking at the realistic possibility of a GE, why Labour see Corbyn as a liability and not an asset baffles me. To do a Lib Dem and say you'll run on a Remain platform is utterly ridiculous - democracy does not mean re-running the election until you get the result you want and for the Lib Dems to say they'll try and keep the UK in the EU means they're standing on a platform of intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate. Madness. I hate IDS but he's right in a way - the next PM should be someone who understands the argument for Leaving. Corbyn is the the best Labour option.

This.

As a lifelong Eurosceptic, Jezza is probably someone best placed to make the most of a post EU Britain, rather than a Tory party who will use it as an attempt to carve up the country. Finally the freedom to renationalise without breaching EU law, save steel, especially now buyers are fleeing in their droves post Brexit.

If the majority of Labour MPs are insistent on disregarding the voice of party members, they need to give up their seats, and strawberry float off to other parties.

This is the time for Labour to make a full return to the left, rather than continue to flirt around with the centre right in some attempt at populism that leaves an entirely empty space on the left of the political spectrum.

But what's the point of being a party of protest forever, as that's what would happen? You have to get elected in order to help the people you're supposedly worrying about. Deliberately embarking on a path that will certainly not get you elected is unconscionable if you actually believe in social justice. This is what weirds me out about some Labour supporters at the moment.

You're assuming that a left wing platform is unelectable, and that it's somehow worth getting elected to deliver something other than your principles.

I don't believe either of these is the case. It would be nice to see exactly what a genuinely left wing Labour Party could achieve, without having to dedicated all this energy to fighting the Blairites on the right.

[Wrathy]

Lib Dems won't get a push because they're still lying strawberry floaters, only difference now is that they also have a leader none of their potential voters would vote for.
Don't be delusional

7000 people have joined since Friday morning. Call me delusional all you want, but the middle ground has opened up nicely for us.

[Hypes]

Lib Dems won't get a push because they're still lying strawberry floaters, only difference now is that they also have a leader none of their potential voters would vote for.
Don't be delusional

I really don't think the Lib Dem's have a monopoly on lies.

[Lex-Man]

Lib Dems won't get a push because they're still lying strawberry floaters, only difference now is that they also have a leader none of their potential voters would vote for.
Don't be delusional

7000 people have joined since Friday morning. Call me delusional all you want, but the middle ground has opened up nicely for us.

I might vote Lib Dem again. Although what will happen if they have to form another coalition government with the Tories? Surly the Tories will be saddled with the leave promise so the Lib Dem's couldn't really join forces.

I'm a bit worried we will end up like Spain in an election deadlock.

[Hexx]

To be fair we seem to be in Post-Truth Truth politics. Lib Dems could do very well

[Eighthours]

Corbyn ran with the message "the EU isn't ideal, it needs change, but we're better placed to make those changed from within than without", which was the view of the majority of the electorate. Now that we're looking at the realistic possibility of a GE, why Labour see Corbyn as a liability and not an asset baffles me. To do a Lib Dem and say you'll run on a Remain platform is utterly ridiculous - democracy does not mean re-running the election until you get the result you want and for the Lib Dems to say they'll try and keep the UK in the EU means they're standing on a platform of intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate. Madness. I hate IDS but he's right in a way - the next PM should be someone who understands the argument for Leaving. Corbyn is the the best Labour option.

This.

As a lifelong Eurosceptic, Jezza is probably someone best placed to make the most of a post EU Britain, rather than a Tory party who will use it as an attempt to carve up the country. Finally the freedom to renationalise without breaching EU law, save steel, especially now buyers are fleeing in their droves post Brexit.

If the majority of Labour MPs are insistent on disregarding the voice of party members, they need to give up their seats, and strawberry float off to other parties.

This is the time for Labour to make a full return to the left, rather than continue to flirt around with the centre right in some attempt at populism that leaves an entirely empty space on the left of the political spectrum.

But what's the point of being a party of protest forever, as that's what would happen? You have to get elected in order to help the people you're supposedly worrying about. Deliberately embarking on a path that will certainly not get you elected is unconscionable if you actually believe in social justice. This is what weirds me out about some Labour supporters at the moment.

You're assuming that a left wing platform is unelectable, and that it's somehow worth getting elected to deliver something other than your principles.

I don't believe either of these is the case. It would be nice to see exactly what a genuinely left wing Labour Party could achieve, without having to dedicated all this energy to fighting the Blairites on the right.

All evidence suggests that a fully left wing party will NEVER win another general election.

[Herdanos]

Corbyn ran with the message "the EU isn't ideal, it needs change, but we're better placed to make those changed from within than without", which was the view of the majority of the electorate. Now that we're looking at the realistic possibility of a GE, why Labour see Corbyn as a liability and not an asset baffles me. To do a Lib Dem and say you'll run on a Remain platform is utterly ridiculous - democracy does not mean re-running the election until you get the result you want and for the Lib Dems to say they'll try and keep the UK in the EU means they're standing on a platform of intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate. Madness. I hate IDS but he's right in a way - the next PM should be someone who understands the argument for Leaving. Corbyn is the the best Labour option.

This.

As a lifelong Eurosceptic, Jezza is probably someone best placed to make the most of a post EU Britain, rather than a Tory party who will use it as an attempt to carve up the country. Finally the freedom to renationalise without breaching EU law, save steel, especially now buyers are fleeing in their droves post Brexit.

If the majority of Labour MPs are insistent on disregarding the voice of party members, they need to give up their seats, and strawberry float off to other parties.

This is the time for Labour to make a full return to the left, rather than continue to flirt around with the centre right in some attempt at populism that leaves an entirely empty space on the left of the political spectrum.

But what's the point of being a party of protest forever, as that's what would happen? You have to get elected in order to help the people you're supposedly worrying about. Deliberately embarking on a path that will certainly not get you elected is unconscionable if you actually believe in social justice. This is what weirds me out about some Labour supporters at the moment.

You're assuming that a left wing platform is unelectable, and that it's somehow worth getting elected to deliver something other than your principles.

I don't believe either of these is the case. It would be nice to see exactly what a genuinely left wing Labour Party could achieve, without having to dedicated all this energy to fighting the Blairites on the right.

All evidence suggests that a fully left wing party will NEVER win another general election.

We spoke about this when Miliband lost. There's no point getting into it now but the point remains the same - you're wrong, to say 'all evidence' and 'never' is disingenuous. It's your interpretation that a general election wing from a genuinely left wing party is unlikely. Less hyperbole please.

[Wrathy]

Lib Dems won't get a push because they're still lying strawberry floaters, only difference now is that they also have a leader none of their potential voters would vote for.
Don't be delusional

7000 people have joined since Friday morning. Call me delusional all you want, but the middle ground has opened up nicely for us.

I might vote Lib Dem again. Although what will happen if they have to form another coalition government with the Tories? Surly the Tories will be saddled with the leave promise so the Lib Dem's couldn't really join forces.

I'm a bit worried we will end up like Spain in an election deadlock.

I think there were some hard lessons learned by the lib dems over the past coalition, and the current leader Tim Farron never held a cabinet or governmental responsibility - so, more than anyone, I think he's well suited to be in charge now, as he saw first hand the damage it did to good politicians with sterling careers (Clegg, Cable, etc).

But since I expect a Tory/UKIP coalition (at best) for the next government, it's probably a bit of a moot point.

[Grumpy David]

I don't think they can call another General Election due to the Fixed Term Parliaments bill? I guess they could repeal it though and then do it.

Definitely wouldn't expect a General Election before the boundaries are equalised.

[Lex-Man]

I don't think they can call another General Election due to the Fixed Term Parliaments bill? I guess they could repeal it though and then do it.

Definitely wouldn't expect a General Election before the boundaries are equalised.

Yup, it would be slightly harder to do. But it is possible.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elec ... g/general/

The Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 provides for general elections to be held on the first Thursday in May every five years.

However, there are two provisions that trigger an election other than at five year intervals:

a motion of no confidence is passed in Her Majesty's Government by a simple majority and 14 days elapses without the House passing a confidence motion in any new Government formed
a motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats (currently 434 out of 650)

[KK]

I don't think they can call another General Election due to the Fixed Term Parliaments bill? I guess they could repeal it though and then do it.

Definitely wouldn't expect a General Election before the boundaries are equalised.

If May gets in it's unlikely, but if Boris does he wasn't in the cabinet or even in government at the time we voted, and the mandate the country originally voted on could be deemed as void.

[Hexx]

More resignations - to be fair I'd resign if I had to work with Abbot

The Shadow Health team is about to be reduced to just Diane Abbott and Justin Madders. Barbara Keeley and Andrew Gwynne set to quit

[NickSCFC]

Corbyn sabotaged the Remain campaign, the man has to go.

[Eighthours]

Corbyn ran with the message "the EU isn't ideal, it needs change, but we're better placed to make those changed from within than without", which was the view of the majority of the electorate. Now that we're looking at the realistic possibility of a GE, why Labour see Corbyn as a liability and not an asset baffles me. To do a Lib Dem and say you'll run on a Remain platform is utterly ridiculous - democracy does not mean re-running the election until you get the result you want and for the Lib Dems to say they'll try and keep the UK in the EU means they're standing on a platform of intentionally misrepresenting 52% of the electorate. Madness. I hate IDS but he's right in a way - the next PM should be someone who understands the argument for Leaving. Corbyn is the the best Labour option.

This.

As a lifelong Eurosceptic, Jezza is probably someone best placed to make the most of a post EU Britain, rather than a Tory party who will use it as an attempt to carve up the country. Finally the freedom to renationalise without breaching EU law, save steel, especially now buyers are fleeing in their droves post Brexit.

If the majority of Labour MPs are insistent on disregarding the voice of party members, they need to give up their seats, and strawberry float off to other parties.

This is the time for Labour to make a full return to the left, rather than continue to flirt around with the centre right in some attempt at populism that leaves an entirely empty space on the left of the political spectrum.

But what's the point of being a party of protest forever, as that's what would happen? You have to get elected in order to help the people you're supposedly worrying about. Deliberately embarking on a path that will certainly not get you elected is unconscionable if you actually believe in social justice. This is what weirds me out about some Labour supporters at the moment.

You're assuming that a left wing platform is unelectable, and that it's somehow worth getting elected to deliver something other than your principles.

I don't believe either of these is the case. It would be nice to see exactly what a genuinely left wing Labour Party could achieve, without having to dedicated all this energy to fighting the Blairites on the right.

All evidence suggests that a fully left wing party will NEVER win another general election.

We spoke about this when Miliband lost. There's no point getting into it now but the point remains the same - you're wrong, to say 'all evidence' and 'never' is disingenuous. It's your interpretation that a general election wing from a genuinely left wing party is unlikely. Less hyperbole please.

It really isn't an interpretation, but never mind.