The Official Labour Unity Thread: Corbyn re-elected as leader

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Eighthours
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PostThe Official Labour Unity Thread: Corbyn re-elected as leader
by Eighthours » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:14 am

While the Labour leadership crisis has been triggered by Brexit - MPs fearing that they may no longer have years for Jeremy Corbyn to fail by himself before the next General Election - it's time for the current travails of the party to have their own thread.

Jeremy Corbyn was elected 9 months ago with the biggest mandate in Labour history, promising a 'kinder, gentler' politics. Some question whether this was due to the large influx of entryists and £3 members (a scheme set up by Ed Miliband to encourage more engagement with leadership contests, who must now be wishing he didn't do it), but many others saw his win as a new dawn for the Labour Party, that they would now care about the ordinary people of this country rather than being more interested in aloof, technocratic wonkery. Corbyn won because his opponents in the campaign were all awful, talking in the same political language that means nothing and turns off people off politics. Corbyn seemed straight talking, he seemed different. People responded positively.

Never having much support within the Parliamentary Labour Party (ie. the MPs rather than ordinary members), Corbyn has led without authority in the Commons. Few MPs thought that he would fight a General Election, still fewer that he could ever become Prime Minister. But doubts have grown still further about his performances in Prime Minister's Questions, his appointment of the odious Seamus Milne as his chief spin doctor ('kinder, gentler politics'? No), and the fact that he doesn't seem to be able to get through to Labour's core vote. The argument is that he only appeals to the kind of Islingtonian, Metropolitan voters that would never be able to get him a majority in the country. His performance in the referendum campaign has been portrayed as abject and disinterested, and there is a suspicion that he didn't really try because he actually wanted us to leave the EU, which was his personal position for decades before he became leader.

But he IS popular among his supporters, inspiring the kind of devotion that leaves many completely baffled and others rapturous at having jumped on the Corbyn train.

But today he faces a vote of no confidence in his leadership. Over the weekend and yesterday, whole swathes of his Shadow Cabinet resigned, and at a bad tempered meeting of the PLP last night, many MPs said to his face that he had to go. Meanwhile, Corbyn himself has indicated that if there is a leadership contest then he will stand again, and his Momentum pressure group (originally created to help with his first leadership campaign) - and said by many to be poisonous and certainly not 'kinder, gentle' - is already mobilising to assist. Given his mandate last time, how can he possibly lose, and who will stand against him?

So, we have plenty to discuss. Will Corbyn tough it out and win another leadership contest? Is the Labour Party in danger of splitting? Is Diane Abbott really now Shadow Foreign Secretary?

Grab your popcorn, it's going to be a wild ride.

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Winckle » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:21 am

"Led without authority" - He had the mandate of the membership of the party. The real problem here is the lack of accountability from MPs to local party members. Every MP should be up for re-selection each election cycle. Just like SNP MPs are. It makes them accountable to the local party members, rather than being parachuted into a Northern safe seat for life, with the local party unable to do anything about it.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Rex Kramer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:25 am

I'd be interested to know if there is a Labour party member who would be confident of an election victory in 4 months time if a GE is called by the next Tory leader.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Eighthours » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:30 am

Winckle wrote:"Led without authority" - He had the mandate of the membership of the party. The real problem here is the lack of accountability from MPs to local party members. Every MP should be up for re-selection each election cycle. Just like SNP MPs are. It makes them accountable to the local party members, rather than being parachuted into a Northern safe seat for life, with the local party unable to do anything about it.


But little authority among his own MPs.

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Moggy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:35 am

Corbyn was elected as the members of the Labour party were sick to death of Blair’s new Labour and the massive lurch to the right that the party took. Corbyn looked like he might bring something different to parliament, he is genuinely left wing, he is not a shouty screamy style MP etc.

But it has been a massive failure for Labour. He has no respect from his MPs. He has done nothing to hold the Tories to account. He did nothing for the EU referendum.

He needs to go if this country is to have an effective opposition.

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Winckle
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Winckle » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:41 am

Eighthours wrote:
Winckle wrote:"Led without authority" - He had the mandate of the membership of the party. The real problem here is the lack of accountability from MPs to local party members. Every MP should be up for re-selection each election cycle. Just like SNP MPs are. It makes them accountable to the local party members, rather than being parachuted into a Northern safe seat for life, with the local party unable to do anything about it.


But little authority among his own MPs.

Like I said, because of the lack of accountability between the PLP and the local party chapters, there is a split between them. The interests of the average MP do not line up with what the party membership want. I feel that the membership should get the party they want. If the backstabbing MPs get their way, there will be an exodus of members. And with the Tories crooked bill to stop trade unions funding the Labour party, they need all the fivers that members send them each month.

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Cal » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:49 am

Moggy wrote:Corbyn was elected as the members of the Labour party were sick to death of Blair’s new Labour and the massive lurch to the right that the party took. Corbyn looked like he might bring something different to parliament, he is genuinely left wing, he is not a shouty screamy style MP etc.

But it has been a massive failure for Labour. He has no respect from his MPs. He has done nothing to hold the Tories to account. He did nothing for the EU referendum.

He needs to go if this country is to have an effective opposition.


He did something for the EU referendum: he lost it for Labour. That is why all this is happening now. Labour Blairites are furious (and rightly so) that Britain's place in the EU - which was, after all, there for the keeping - was wilfully thrown away by a man who had no intention whatsoever of attempting to fight for it; if you read some of the stories going around he actively did quite the opposite. The EU was a Labour project through-and-through; progressive, common purpose and perfectly in line with New Labour values and aspirations. Corbyn can't be forgiven for consciously letting this slip away. It must be maddening for moderate, centrist Labour MPs and I understand their fury with him. It's a catastrophe for them - and for Labour's future as a moderate democratic socialist party with a wide electoral appeal.

This has to end. Corbyn must be taken out - however possible, it must be done. Labour have to save themselves and set about trying to find a way back towards the sunlit uplands of the European Union they so loved (even though - because of him - it might now be a massive trek). There will be no peace for Labour until their nemesis, Corbyn (who with his zombie Momentum army is acting more and more like an insurgent intent on wreaking utter carnage on the Party) is eliminated totally and completely. And there can be no chance of electoral success until this is achieved.

Last edited by Cal on Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Rex Kramer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:59 am

It's hardly surprising Corbyn is making these kinds of noises when he's got Diane Abbott as one of his advisors. :fp: She's more strawberry floating deluded than he is.

You're being very Westminster-centric, says Abbott

Today Programme
BBC Radio 4
Posted at
08:41
Diane Abbott says she thinks "there's a very good chance" that Mr Corbyn will win a leadership election and then the party "will wants MPs to rally behind their leader".

"Party members are going to look dimly at people who've chosen to unleash this type of mayhem," she adds.

Presenter Sarah Montague asks what will happen at the next general election if Mr Corbyn is still the leader.

"You're being very Westminster-centric," replies Ms Abbott. "This is about the party. All you're talking about is what MPs are saying."

At what point do you say to him, 'It's time to step down'?

"This isn't about Westminster MPs, it's about the party and the country," Ms Abbott says.

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Winckle
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Winckle » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:07 am

I mean she's not wrong about members being angry. I am angry at those MPs choosing to betray a leader I voted for less than a year ago.

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by BID0 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:10 am

Winckle wrote:
Eighthours wrote:
Winckle wrote:"Led without authority" - He had the mandate of the membership of the party. The real problem here is the lack of accountability from MPs to local party members. Every MP should be up for re-selection each election cycle. Just like SNP MPs are. It makes them accountable to the local party members, rather than being parachuted into a Northern safe seat for life, with the local party unable to do anything about it.


But little authority among his own MPs.

Like I said, because of the lack of accountability between the PLP and the local party chapters, there is a split between them. The interests of the average MP do not line up with what the party membership want. I feel that the membership should get the party they want. If the backstabbing MPs get their way, there will be an exodus of members. And with the Tories crooked bill to stop trade unions funding the Labour party, they need all the fivers that members send them each month.

Pretty much this. If the PLP are unhappy they should look at making a new party like UKIP.

Corbyn isn't going any where :lol:

Those MPs are part of the problem. Putting themselves before the people who vote for them

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Rex Kramer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:13 am

BID0 wrote:
Winckle wrote:
Eighthours wrote:
Winckle wrote:"Led without authority" - He had the mandate of the membership of the party. The real problem here is the lack of accountability from MPs to local party members. Every MP should be up for re-selection each election cycle. Just like SNP MPs are. It makes them accountable to the local party members, rather than being parachuted into a Northern safe seat for life, with the local party unable to do anything about it.


But little authority among his own MPs.

Like I said, because of the lack of accountability between the PLP and the local party chapters, there is a split between them. The interests of the average MP do not line up with what the party membership want. I feel that the membership should get the party they want. If the backstabbing MPs get their way, there will be an exodus of members. And with the Tories crooked bill to stop trade unions funding the Labour party, they need all the fivers that members send them each month.

Pretty much this. If the PLP are unhappy they should look at making a new party like UKIP.

Corbyn isn't going any where :lol:

Those MPs are part of the problem. Putting themselves before the people who vote for them

On that basis, I'll revert you back to my earlier question.

"I'd be interested to know if there is a Labour party member who would be confident of an election victory in 4 months time if a GE is called by the next Tory leader."

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Current castaway: Rax can be found here. All the previous contributors can be found here.
Tackling the pile of shame part 2 - http://grview.grcade.co.uk/articles/the-7-commandments-of-tackling-the-pile-of-shame/
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by BID0 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:23 am

Rex Kramer wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Winckle wrote:
Eighthours wrote:
Winckle wrote:"Led without authority" - He had the mandate of the membership of the party. The real problem here is the lack of accountability from MPs to local party members. Every MP should be up for re-selection each election cycle. Just like SNP MPs are. It makes them accountable to the local party members, rather than being parachuted into a Northern safe seat for life, with the local party unable to do anything about it.


But little authority among his own MPs.

Like I said, because of the lack of accountability between the PLP and the local party chapters, there is a split between them. The interests of the average MP do not line up with what the party membership want. I feel that the membership should get the party they want. If the backstabbing MPs get their way, there will be an exodus of members. And with the Tories crooked bill to stop trade unions funding the Labour party, they need all the fivers that members send them each month.

Pretty much this. If the PLP are unhappy they should look at making a new party like UKIP.

Corbyn isn't going any where :lol:

Those MPs are part of the problem. Putting themselves before the people who vote for them

On that basis, I'll revert you back to my earlier question.

"I'd be interested to know if there is a Labour party member who would be confident of an election victory in 4 months time if a GE is called by the next Tory leader."

I'm not a party member but there would be a chance I'd vote for Labour (based upon the manifesto anyway). I wouldn't at all if labour want to serve up another out of touch MP.

If they go for a leadership election again the members will just select Corbyn again. If they're so worried about being electable, how about they stop playing silly games like this and get on with their job. If anyone's hurting Labour it's these people who aren't falling in line. Like I said I'm sure they're capable of starting a new party if they think they have a better idea to win a GE.

People keep talking about all of the parties being the same, needing something different and here we are... Something different and it's undermined at every possible chance.

The media are gooseberry fool scared of this guy and so are these Labour MPs that are used to save seats. No politician should have a safe seat. Ever.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Moggy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:28 am

BID0 wrote:
People keep talking about all of the parties being the same, needing something different and here we are... Something different and it's undermined at every possible chance.

The media are gooseberry fool scared of this guy and so are these Labour MPs that are used to save seats. No politician should have a safe seat. Ever.


Corbyn has a pretty safe seat. ;)

I agree that people want something different, but being different is not enough by itself to win an election or to be an effective leader of the opposition.

Corbyn’s style is just too passive to work in Parliament and Labour will be annihilated at the next election with him in charge.

They need to find somebody that encompasses the views of the party members but who can also stick it to the Conservatives when needed.

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by KK » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:29 am

How many crises have the Tories had this year and Labour have been absent from every single one.

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by BID0 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:35 am

Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:
People keep talking about all of the parties being the same, needing something different and here we are... Something different and it's undermined at every possible chance.

The media are gooseberry fool scared of this guy and so are these Labour MPs that are used to save seats. No politician should have a safe seat. Ever.


Corbyn has a pretty safe seat. ;)

I agree that people want something different, but being different is not enough by itself to win an election or to be an effective leader of the opposition.

Corbyn’s style is just too passive to work in Parliament and Labour will be annihilated at the next election with him in charge.

They need to find somebody that encompasses the views of the party members but who can also stick it to the Conservatives when needed.

Unfortunately the guy hasn't really had a chance with these kind of things happening, because the people acting up don't want politics to change so they're going to act like children every step of the way until they get their way

I hope this goes to a leadership contest just so they fall in line. The membership will clearly vote Corbyn overwhelmingly in favour and then he has his mandate reinforced and he can clear house

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Hexx » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:42 am

Do we really need a Cameron resigned thread, a EU ref thread, a politics thread and a Corbyn thread?

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Eighthours
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Eighthours » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:43 am

There was a rumour yesterday that if Corbyn wins again, the PLP could elect their own leader in an act of defiance. There genuinely is a danger that the Labour party could split into 2 separate entities. I don't think it'll actually happen, but something else happened recently that few predicted...

Also, strawberry floating LOL at Diane Abbott:

Diane Abbott has criticised the process facing Corbyn today, arguing that the no-confidence motion is not part of the rules and the secret ballot unfair. She suggested the leader would do better if the vote was public, claiming that you wouldn’t even run a “parish church” in this way.


So she wants a PUBLIC ballot among MPs, thinking that Corbyn would do better. No gooseberry fool! MPs know what Momentum and Milne will do to them. The tacit acceptance of bullying and intimidation is strawberry floating horrible.

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Moggy » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:44 am

Hexx wrote:Do we really need a Cameron resigned thread, a EU ref thread, a politics thread and a Corbyn thread?


Yes.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by Eighthours » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:47 am

Hexx wrote:Do we really need a Cameron resigned thread, a EU ref thread, a politics thread and a Corbyn thread?


These are threads for 3 massive events, with an extra general thread if there is any business which doesn't fit into them (which is unlikely... I suspect that the Politics thread will lie dormant for a while...).

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PostRe: The Official Labour Implosion Thread
by satriales » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:51 am

Rex Kramer wrote:I'd be interested to know if there is a Labour party member who would be confident of an election victory in 4 months time if a GE is called by the next Tory leader.

Not a party member, but I'd vote for Corbyn if an election was called soon. If he get's removed and replaced by some Blairite then they won't be getting my vote.


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