The Politics Thread 4

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Karl
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Karl » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:01 pm

People who 'distrust and resent' immigrants are racists. Let's not talk about them like they're misunderstood.

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Errkal
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Errkal » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:18 pm

There is way too much tolerance for racism around.

Ahhh it's only casual

Ahhh it's a generational thing

strawberry float off, it's racism end of.

If someone was to slaps a girl's arse it's sexism wether they are from an older generation or just joking about why is racism different.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Moggy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:21 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Meep wrote:I remember a time when something like the Windrush debacle would have caused multiple resignations and possibly brought down the government. We are really post-shame now.


No just very right wing and anti immigration make what happened expected and accepted by those in charge and a worrying portion of the electorate.


The wider anti immigration feeling in recent years has largely been caused by the sheer amount of people arriving here, net migration has been in the hundreds of thousands now for many years, and this combined with the resulting infrastructure pressures is what has created a lot of resentment from the wider population.

Back in the 90's, net migration was much lower and so while we still had newcomers arriving regularly, it simply wasn't such an issue for many folk. The resulting backlash against immigration in recent times is an issue largely created by those who encouraged mass immigration at an unsustainable level.

The problem for the windrush folk in all this, is that like with a number of other issues, the backlash put pressure on the govt to change things. This led them to implement 'tougher measures' which, as you would expect from successive governments in recent years, were completely fudged and so ended up aimed at pretty much everyone born overseas regardless of circumstances.


Christ, the immigrants are even getting the blame now for the anti-immigration policies of the UKIP lite Tory party. :lol:

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Moggy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:23 pm

Errkal wrote:There is way too much tolerance for racism around.

Ahhh it's only casual

Ahhh it's a generational thing

strawberry float off, it's racism end of.

If someone was to slaps a girl's arse it's sexism wether they are from an older generation or just joking about why is racism different.


She was wearing a short skirt and so was obviously asking for it!

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Earfolds » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:46 pm

My name's Paul Nuttalls of the Ukips and I say we need to ensure the brightest and best Anglo-Saxons stay in 5th century northern continental Europe, instead of coming over here to the UK and laying down the basis of our entire future language and culture.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Moggy » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:57 pm

Earfolds wrote:My name's Paul Nuttalls of the Ukips and I say we need to ensure the brightest and best Anglo-Saxons stay in 5th century northern continental Europe, instead of coming over here to the UK and laying down the basis of our entire future language and culture.


I say strawberry float the beaker people :x

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KK
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by KK » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:43 pm

The latest YouGov/Times voting intention survey (16-17 Apr), largely conducted before the Windrush row, sees the Conservatives on 43% (from 40% in last week's poll) and Labour on 38% (from 40%).

Elsewhere, Liberal Democrat voting intention stands at 8% (from 9%) while 11% would vote for other parties (no change).

On who would make the best Prime Minister, 39% of people prefer Theresa May while 25% favour Jeremy Corbyn. A further 35% can't choose between the two.

Last week we highlighted how concern over crime had reached a seven year high in our 'most important issues' tracker. This week sees the issue receding somewhat in the eyes of the public, with a five-point drop from 27% of people considering it one of the top three issues facing the country to 22%. This could be in part because of the attacks on Syria dominating the headlines, with a commensurate increase in the proportion of people seeing "defence and security" as a top-three from 22% last week to 27% this week

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Winckle » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:34 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Karl wrote:If anti-immigration sentiment is caused by immigrants, why is anti-immigration sentiment highest in areas with no immigration?

Anti-immigration sentiment is caused by anti-immigration rhetoric in politics and the news. It's nothing to do with immigrants themselves.


There's actually quite a bit of immigration even in such areas these days, pretty much all the places i go to (even the smallest market towns) have lots of people from overseas present. It is something that only became noticeable outside the major conurbations during the last 10-15 years, and such rapid social changes in these regions (combined with some of the media rhetoric you mentioned) were always going to lead to a level of distrust and resentment from sections of the wider population.

I mean Karl said how it was earlier in the thread, but to re-iterate, the data simply doesn't support what you're saying.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Rex Kramer » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:41 pm

KK wrote:
The latest YouGov/Times voting intention survey (16-17 Apr), largely conducted before the Windrush row, sees the Conservatives on 43% (from 40% in last week's poll) and Labour on 38% (from 40%).

Elsewhere, Liberal Democrat voting intention stands at 8% (from 9%) while 11% would vote for other parties (no change).

On who would make the best Prime Minister, 39% of people prefer Theresa May while 25% favour Jeremy Corbyn. A further 35% can't choose between the two.

Last week we highlighted how concern over crime had reached a seven year high in our 'most important issues' tracker. This week sees the issue receding somewhat in the eyes of the public, with a five-point drop from 27% of people considering it one of the top three issues facing the country to 22%. This could be in part because of the attacks on Syria dominating the headlines, with a commensurate increase in the proportion of people seeing "defence and security" as a top-three from 22% last week to 27% this week

Worst PM in living memory yet still holds a 14% lead over the leader of the opposition?

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Alvin Flummux » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:46 pm

Moggy wrote:
Earfolds wrote:My name's Paul Nuttalls of the Ukips and I say we need to ensure the brightest and best Anglo-Saxons stay in 5th century northern continental Europe, instead of coming over here to the UK and laying down the basis of our entire future language and culture.


I say strawberry float the beaker people :x


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Rex Kramer wrote:Worst PM in living memory yet still holds a 14% lead over the leader of the opposition?


Should be a slam dunk for Labour, but as it evidently is not, it should be a wake-up call. They won't do gooseberry fool until they lose the next general election and guarantee us another four years of Tory crap, though.

Easily the worst, most incompetent generation of party leadership on all sides in living memory.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Cuttooth » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:11 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:
KK wrote:
The latest YouGov/Times voting intention survey (16-17 Apr), largely conducted before the Windrush row, sees the Conservatives on 43% (from 40% in last week's poll) and Labour on 38% (from 40%).

Elsewhere, Liberal Democrat voting intention stands at 8% (from 9%) while 11% would vote for other parties (no change).

On who would make the best Prime Minister, 39% of people prefer Theresa May while 25% favour Jeremy Corbyn. A further 35% can't choose between the two.

Last week we highlighted how concern over crime had reached a seven year high in our 'most important issues' tracker. This week sees the issue receding somewhat in the eyes of the public, with a five-point drop from 27% of people considering it one of the top three issues facing the country to 22%. This could be in part because of the attacks on Syria dominating the headlines, with a commensurate increase in the proportion of people seeing "defence and security" as a top-three from 22% last week to 27% this week

Worst PM in living memory yet still holds a 14% lead over the leader of the opposition?


Support for Corbyn has been on a downward trajectory since the election, even among 18-24 year old voters. His leadership on Brexit being counter to the views of Labour members and his inaction on sorting out anti-semitism within Labour have absolutely had an impact.



I expect King Don't Know to surge ahead in this kind of poll given the backlash May is receiving over her disastrous anti-immigration policies wrecking people's lives.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by <]:^D » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:12 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Meep wrote:I remember a time when something like the Windrush debacle would have caused multiple resignations and possibly brought down the government. We are really post-shame now.


No just very right wing and anti immigration make what happened expected and accepted by those in charge and a worrying portion of the electorate.


The wider anti immigration feeling in recent years has largely been caused by the sheer amount of people arriving here, net migration has been in the hundreds of thousands now for many years, and this combined with the resulting infrastructure pressures is what has created a lot of resentment from the wider population.

Back in the 90's, net migration was much lower and so while we still had newcomers arriving regularly, it simply wasn't such an issue for many folk. The resulting backlash against immigration in recent times is an issue largely created by those who encouraged mass immigration at an unsustainable level.

The problem for the windrush folk in all this, is that like with a number of other issues, the backlash put pressure on the govt to change things. This led them to implement 'tougher measures' which, as you would expect from successive governments in recent years, were completely fudged and so ended up aimed at pretty much everyone born overseas regardless of circumstances.


1. successive governments (both Labour and the Conservatives) have quietly accepted immigration because it was helping fuel the economy.
2. successive governments have done nothing to increase spending on infrastructure, instead taking an idealogical decision towards austerity and tax breaks
its not about immigrants putting pressure on this country's services, its about the last few governments being absolute banana splits of the highest order.

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Meep
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Meep » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:04 am

That is not really true though, the Blair government spend a lot on schools and hospitals and such; it's one of the main sticks the Conservatives used to beat them over the head with after the recession. Actually things like waiting times for surgery came down dramatically after Labour started investing in the NHS again even while immigration was surging upward at the time. This was of course mainly due to the good economy being enjoyed at the time.

The problems with services only really started after 2008 when the taps were turned off, first moderately by Brown and then almost completely under the Coalition while demographic shift in age continued to accelerate.

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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by <]:^D » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:32 am

i wasnt referring to Blair's government, but i shouldve been clearer.

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Moggy
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Moggy » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:40 am

This strawberry floating country :fp:


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Lagamorph
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Lagamorph » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:45 am

The capitalisation in that letter is almost as offensive as the racism.

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Alvin Flummux » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:49 am

Be Grateful you were Raised in a country With an Education System that Taught you How to Read, lagaMorph.

Last edited by Alvin Flummux on Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KK
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by KK » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:49 am

The Home Office gets a lot of letters about Meghan Markle. They go to a separate department more higher up.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Rex Kramer » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:59 am

I guess we should be grateful, without a steady stream of racist letters being sent then the Royal Mail would probably have folded years ago.

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Winckle
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PostRe: The Politics Thread 4
by Winckle » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:30 pm

KK wrote:The Home Office gets a lot of letters about Meghan Markle. They go to a separate department more higher up.

:|


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