lex-man wrote:I think the thing people forget when talking about taxation is that the only reason they can earn money is because we have a government. The work the government does massively improves all our lives and with out it we'd be back to a barter system. Money only exists because of the government.
I feel like I'm missing something here. I'm not an advocate for getting rid of government - we need one, I think only the most ardent anarchist would claim we literally do not need one - but why if we did would we be back to a barter system? Just because the government introduced it doesn't mean a country would stop being able to use existing money afterwards. There would be a lot of other problems caused, but that would not be one of them. Money doesn't "only exist because of the government". Would companies in the UK suddenly stop deciding to accept the pound as legal tender, and ruin their market reach? No. Would they stop paying their workers in money and letting them die of poverty? No. Would individuals stop deciding to use money and... I dunno, have to choose between growing their own crops or dying of poverty? No. There's no evidence that money in a government-less system wouldn't work. How well it would work, we have no idea, because it's never been tried before. I personally wouldn't like to be part of that experiment, but I doubt the money would be the issue.
Assuming the Bank of England wouldn't exist, we'd actually have a deflationary currency, which has its own problems (such as contracts being incredibly difficult to sort out/resolve since the value would always be going up) but would arguably be better in the system we're in where inflation rates dwarf interest rates meaning people who "save" money in "savings accounts" are literally losing money over time because although the amount of £ they have go up, it's by less than the value decreases.
Cribs wrote:Are we just ignoring personal allowance?
lex-man wrote:If some bodies struggling shouldn't the government help them. Also I don't think the the difference between 10 and 20 would be that great when the wages get large enough. Your life style wouldnt change much by having 90k or 80k a year to play with.
Yes, personal allowance is a good thing. I'm glad governments have risen it significantly. The point was more to demonstrate how tax rates can hit someone. Even if someone is earning, let's say, £20k (which is less than I do), even including the personal allowance the amount of tax taken would be, after April this year, 20% of (£20000 - £11500). Which works out at £1700 in tax. For someone on this low wage, if it were 10% (hypothetically) it would be £850. An £850 loss to someone earning that much, when bills, rent, living costs, and other financial costs is actually pretty damn life-style changing because disposable income goes down significantly. You're right that on a high wage, having 90k/80k to play with wouldn't be a big difference, but we get higher tax rates as the wages increase. Any earnings over £45,000 up to £150,000 have a 40% tax rate, and any earnings over that have 45%. So if you're on "£200k a year" salary, you actually end up paying (as of right now):
45% of (200000 - 150000) = £22500
40% of (150000 - 45000) = £42000 +
20% of (45000 - 11500) = £6700
= £71200 in tax, making your "actual" salary around £128800 Still definitely a very good salary, and I would personally be extremely happy with that amount, but the amount taken is significant when you know your work is worth £200k to a company. I don't expect many people to be shedding tears for these people since they're hardly struggling, and I'm certainly not, but I still consider it pretty high.
Cribs wrote:Or, if we're talking corporation tax, why is anyone who could be considered struggling still running a company?
What do you mean here? As in, if a company is struggling to shouldn't continue, or if a person in charge is struggling, they should be forbidden from running it? If so, why to either if profit is still being made?
Moggy wrote:KK wrote:If I had to pinpoint one thing in particular I think it was probably those who highjacked Jacob Rees-Mogg’s speech. That type of behaviour never goes down well with the public.
I mostly agree with your points there but the Rees-Mogg thing really does show how anti-Corbyn the press are.
The first punch was one of Mogg’s people hitting a woman. The same guy who seems to enjoy dressing up as an SS officer.
Corbyn/Momentum might be twats, but let’s not pretend Rees-Mogg and his people are poor innocents.
The first punch being Mogg's cronies doesn't really mean much, though. He may have instigated the first punch but it was clear from the offset that peace was not on Momentum's agenda. Waiting for someone to be provoked enough to get away with it as a "retaliation" is arguably worse. And even if it wasn't, no-platforming is a hideous thing to try and do.