The Prebuilt PC Thread - by the command of Falsey

[Wiggy G32]

Then tell them in the topic but this just seems like self important and superior lecturing just because a few of you prefer self builds when pre-builds are just as valid even if they are slightly more expensive.
Just saying don't buy them is no better than a topic about not buying a PS3.

your getting confused between buying a quality prebuild which uses decent components and yes you pay more for and the prebuilds Hugo is linking to which is cheap rubbish

[Peter Crisp]

Sorry about this I know I said I'd leave and I will be good but I've been asked a direct question so here goes.

Pre-builds can be fine if you shop around and find the bargains just as self builds can. Some people prefer the convenience and don't mind paying extra.
I bought a pre-build about 3 years ago and before that I built my own PC. The Pre-build has been rock solid and at the time wasn't that much more expensive than the parts themselves (I did check) so I can't see a problem with them which is why I think this topic will go round and round with people like me defending one side and you guys defending your side until we all go insane.

That's really it now.

Bye.

[TheTurnipKing]

Exactly why would most people need more SATA ports? Its a budget PC on a budget without the hassle of putting it all together. It is what it is and if you have a problem with it, then I'd suggest thats something you probably want to examine for yourself

It's not the number of SATA ports which is the factor (AS you say, most people probably don't really need more than two or three drives in their PC). It's that the core design of Intel's boards usually calls for a certain number of ports. Older or cheaper boards tend to have a smaller number, and because the number of ports is small, it indicates this may be such a board, and because the board is a central component and everything is shuttled through it, it may adversely affect system performance - certainly expandability.

And I have to fall back on this because there's no way of telling what Mobo is in that particular Zoostorm short of cracking open the case (and incidently voiding the warranty).

According to the anonymous review...

The motherboard is an ECS H61H2-M2

That's another thing: There's no guarantee that the specs will stay absolutely consistent through different production runs.

[HSH28]

Its true I suppose.

At the end of the day though, does it really matter to the vast majority of people.

The really vocal hostility you hear from the minority snobs on here, might make people think that a budget component is likely to break after a few months.

If you've had that experience then I'm sorry, but I don't think thats really an issue. These parts are budget because they are limited, or because they aren't quite as good (in speed terms) as something you might buy off the shelves when you know what you are doing. They aren't budget because they are dodgy and likely to fail.

A decent HDD can make a really noticable difference, obviously a better graphics card would too. But after that, the fact those parts in that machine are budget I don't think most people would ever notice.

[TheTurnipKing]

Its true I suppose.

At the end of the day though, does it really matter to the vast majority of people.

Simply by asking on Grcade, It is usually safe to assume that they are not "the vast majority of people".

That's not to say that you couldn't potentially pick up a tremendous bargain by upgrading a prebuild. But with the amount of work and luck involved, generally I'd say one might as well start with a custom build and be done with it.

[TheTurnipKing]

A decent HDD can make a really noticable difference, obviously a better graphics card would too. But after that, the fact those parts in that machine are budget I don't think most people would ever notice.

The right CPU can make a tremendous difference in CPU bound games. RAM is increasingly a commodity item, but branded modules will usually set their timings better with no tinkering in the BIOS.

The Motherboard is increasingly just a place for all the other components to sit, but the Southbridge still resides there, and the number of PCI-e lanes present can be critical - especially if you want to have more than one GPU, or you want to install more than just a GPU (like a dedicated soundcard).

That's the thing about a PC. It's not just an all in one box. It actually is a system, and every component CAN impact on many others. The nice thing about that though if you can customise it to your own preferences.

[HSH28]

A decent HDD can make a really noticable difference, obviously a better graphics card would too. But after that, the fact those parts in that machine are budget I don't think most people would ever notice.

The right CPU can make a tremendous difference in CPU bound games. RAM is increasingly a commodity item, but branded modules will usually set their timings better with no tinkering in the BIOS.

The Motherboard is increasingly just a place for all the other components to sit, but the Southbridge still resides there, and the number of PCI-e lanes present can be critical - especially if you want to have more than one GPU, or you want to install more than just a GPU (like a dedicated soundcard).

That's the thing about a PC. It's not just an all in one box. It actually is a system, and every component CAN impact on many others. The nice thing about that though if you can customise it to your own preferences.

The CPU in question is a decent i5, the RAM while low end I don't think makes the difference that the majority of people notice.

Look what I wrote, I'm talking about what most people would notice. Most people who use a PC do not open it up to change parts or put new stuff in it, you don't have to do that if you don't want to and lots of people don't want to. For them the fact you can't do an SLI thing or you might have trouble adding multiple extra internal devices, just isn't an issue.

[HSH28]

For the kind of good self build PC that is quite a lot better than the prebuild and gives you room to expand in future without any surprises, I think you are talking £600 at the moment, if you want a legit valid copy of Windows 7.

And I'd recommend looking at that first, definitely, if you have the money go for it. Its a fairly simple procedure to put the parts together, as long as you are careful it shouldn't really challenge anyone to be honest...however I am aware that there are people out there that just don't want that hassle. For them, as long as they understand that they won't be getting as good value as they perhaps could and that it will limit their future upgrade potential, I honestly don't see why looking at a sub £500 prebuilt, medium spec'd PC that will run modern PC games is such a horror to some people.

[False]

I suppose its a good job that people dont rely on you for recommendations then.

[$ilva $hadow]

Sorry about this I know I said I'd leave and I will be good but I've been asked a direct question so here goes.

Pre-builds can be fine if you shop around and find the bargains just as self builds can. Some people prefer the convenience and don't mind paying extra.
I bought a pre-build about 3 years ago and before that I built my own PC. The Pre-build has been rock solid and at the time wasn't that much more expensive than the parts themselves (I did check) so I can't see a problem with them which is why I think this topic will go round and round with people like me defending one side and you guys defending your side until we all go insane.

That's really it now.

Bye.

Unfortunately the only logic I can gleam from that is - "a quality product at a higher price can be just as much of a bargain as the same product at a lower price".

Do you honestly believe that or are you just being contrary for the sake of siding against people you dislike on the forum? That logic doesn't make sense.

You know what makes sense? The higher quality product at a lower price is a better bargain than an inferior product at a higher price. That's simply the be all and end all of the story.

With Hugos logic that the prebuild offers you ease of use and forumites on here won't be checking stuff themselves....well no gooseberry fool sherlock, the whole point of the thread is that with the self assembled computer, Falsey is doing everything for you, he's pretty much the middleman creating your PC for you, and at no charge whatsoever. YOU won't be buggering around inside the computer after you have it assembled yourself or by someone else, because Falsey and the others who research this stuff are doing all of that for you, to offer you peace of mind. The whole "prebuilds are easier" doesn't hold up, because someone else is doing all of the research and building for you anyway. The whole bonus of deciding to not go for a prebuild is the cheaper price, the three year warranty, the higher quality components, and more bang for your buck.

Honestly if you want a prebuilt computer, you're doing research for nothing. If you don't understand anything about computers, what difference does it make to you coming onto the forum and asking to be recommended a prebuilt piece of crap, you don't know what the hell you're getting anyway. You may as well take advantage of the middleman choosing your components for you based on your budget, because you'll be none the wiser either way, yet the pay off for choosing to have the components assembled means you're getting way more for your money, a three year warranty and quality parts.


The fact that you use justifications like "most people won't even notice the difference" in order to spout your nonsense about prebuilds having their place just shows how ridiculous your logic and argument really is. If you weren't so far up your own behind with an ego the size of Jupiter, then you'd realise that saying the average person won't notice the difference is a pretty stupid argument to use. How will they notice the difference if they get a custom built pc? They won't notice because they have nothing to compare it to anyway. The fact is that there is a noticeable difference between custom builds and prebuilt pcs. The difference is apparent and big enough to say that getting a prebuilt pc is a bad choice.

[HSH28]

With Hugos logic that the prebuild offers you ease of use and forumites on here won't be checking stuff themselves...

That really isn't anything like what I'm saying.

Why don't you just piss off out of this topic, if all you want to do is say the same thing over and over and not bother with anything constructive.

I think people who don't want to self build deserve not to be treated like complete gooseberry fool by you and the elitist PC brigade.

[$ilva $hadow]

Mind your language please. This thread doesn't say "no silva allowed", so maybe you need to work on that thread title first, or at least form a valid counter argument to everything I've proposed.

What you've said essentially boils down to you advocating low quality products that cost more than the higher quality products. I can't condone that view, so I shall present my disagreement via my posts.

Nobody is treating people who don't want to build a computer themselves, as anything less than a competent individual, who can easily take their components to a computer shop, have it assembled, and still pay less than a prebuilt machine.

[False]

Hugo, brave warrior fighting for the rights of the downtrodden invalid

[$ilva $hadow]

This is another classic example of an egotistic individual who is being contrarian just for the sake of disagreeing with someone he dislikes....on an internet forum. It's kind of sad that he actually believes that someone on the internet is being trodden on by falsey because they're getting legitimate advice, or that the suggestion of having someone else assemble the components is being nasty.

Stop creating 'pretend victims' out of thin air, because no one is being nasty, except for you hugo, and you're doing it as always, in your subtle 'polite' manner, the incessant posting of the same cyclical nonsense, which when confronted with logic, is just rehashed as you ignore every flaw in your logic. The arrogance that you're never ever wrong, the constant changing of goalposts, and then the creation of a supposed victim, so you can claim to be protecting a victim and then have a mod admonish an individual other than you, the real troll.

Next time, just carry around a briefcase and claim that you have the names of all the communists and victims that falsey is abusing with advice.

[HSH28]

Nobody is treating people who don't want to build a computer themselves, as anything less than a competent individual, who can easily take their components to a computer shop, have it assembled, and still pay less than a prebuilt machine.

I don't actually believe thats true.

Look around and spec up a decent machine with an i5, Windows 7, a 1TB HDD, 6GB RAM and a 450GTS graphics card plus a charge for building for under £500. I don't think you can do it.

I never said that wouldn't be a better machine, I am saying its more hassle to get together and I do think it would cost more now actually.

The fact you seem to be unable to even envision that perhaps someone would prefer not to have to go through buying individual parts and putting them together or getting someone else to do it but yet might still want some advice on what to buy and not buy is nuts...or perhaps its that you don't think that person deserves any advise, because if they don't do what you think is right then strawberry float them.

Perhaps thats it. Personally I couldn't give a gooseberry fool about any prebuild/selfbuild agenda, I'm quite happy to give someone my opinion whatever they want. Being so locked in to one particular view. Self Build - Good. Pre Build - Bad. Isn't good for anyone. It doesn't do anyone any favours.

[False]

Its good for everyone. A turd is a turd is a turd.

[HSH28]

Its good for everyone. A turd is a turd is a turd.

No. That is pure elitist, snobbish, up your own arse, bollocks.

It isn't that simple. Trying to make it that simple and ignoring what some people might want because you have some knowledge of the field is irresponsible.

[$ilva $hadow]

Look around and spec up a decent machine with an i5, Windows 7, a 1TB HDD, 6GB RAM and a 450GTS graphics card plus a charge for building for under £500. I don't think you can do it.

A low quality i5, a low quality 1tb hdd, low quality ram and a gooseberry fool graphics card. Impressive. Then you're going to go on and say you can upgrade the machines rubbish graphics card, easily adding on another £150, to which I'll reply that you should just save up, and spend the 650 quid on components that will easily outdo what you've just found.

People are coming onto the forum to get a gaming pc, whether they say it or not...and you're recommending poor quality builds which come with 1 year warranties and low quality components, and telling them that they can upgrade in the future to bring it up to par, which doesn't make sense if you just recommend they spend their money more wisely than going for your first class ticket to wasting money on prebuilt rubbish machines.

You know what would be a good idea with people who don't want to assemble components? Recommend that they take the components to a shop to be assembled. Or persuade them into getting the best deal possible, instead of feeding their ignorance.

[TheTurnipKing]

A decent HDD can make a really noticable difference, obviously a better graphics card would too. But after that, the fact those parts in that machine are budget I don't think most people would ever notice.

The right CPU can make a tremendous difference in CPU bound games. RAM is increasingly a commodity item, but branded modules will usually set their timings better with no tinkering in the BIOS.

The Motherboard is increasingly just a place for all the other components to sit, but the Southbridge still resides there, and the number of PCI-e lanes present can be critical - especially if you want to have more than one GPU, or you want to install more than just a GPU (like a dedicated soundcard).

That's the thing about a PC. It's not just an all in one box. It actually is a system, and every component CAN impact on many others. The nice thing about that though if you can customise it to your own preferences.

The CPU in question is a decent i5, the RAM while low end I don't think makes the difference that the majority of people notice.

Look what I wrote, I'm talking about what most people would notice. Most people who use a PC do not open it up to change parts or put new stuff in it, you don't have to do that if you don't want to and lots of people don't want to. For them the fact you can't do an SLI thing or you might have trouble adding multiple extra internal devices, just isn't an issue.

Those people usually wind up buying laptops.

[$ilva $hadow]

I love how he talks about things like the fact that a prebuilt may not be able to do SLI is something we're trying to advocate.

In fact, with all the custom builds, SLI or any dual GPU solution is something we actively discourage because of the poor value it represents.