The Tennis Thread

[Pancake]

I find it difficult to imagine Murray winning the French but I'd back him to take the Aussie Open. His performance against Djokovic yesterday was phenomenonal, it felt significant to me, as though Murray finally believed in himself as the number one and best player in the world.

As for this talk about Murray benefiting from injuries to Federer and Nadal, that's nothing more than ifs, buts and maybes. Those two have had bad years and appear to be in decline whereas Murray has had a good year and still looks strong.

Next year should be very interesting! Hopefully Federer and Nadal are back and fit, although I think Nadal is probably done.

[Corazon de Leon]

So is Federer for me. I think he'd have retired before 2016 if he hadn't been gunning for Olympic gold and now that he knows he won't make another cycle I think this might be his last season.

I don't like Federer, I always found him a bit of a smarmy twat, but he was an exceptional tennis player. Now though he's 35 years old and his consistency is starting to go. On his day he's still lethal, but I'm not sure if he's got the level to go through an entire tournament playing against younger men who will be out to make a scalp. if I were him I'd get out now.

[Drumstick]

I find it difficult to imagine Murray winning the French

Why? Murray was runner up this year (winning 1 set) and his improvement over clay, particularly in the past 18 months, is well documented.

I don't like Federer, I always found him a bit of a smarmy twat, but he was an exceptional tennis player.

As for this talk about Murray benefiting from injuries to Federer and Nadal, that's nothing more than ifs, buts and maybes. Those two have had bad years and appear to be in decline whereas Murray has had a good year and still looks strong.

Next year should be very interesting! Hopefully Federer and Nadal are back and fit, although I think Nadal is probably done.

Ditto all of that.

[Pancake]

I find it difficult to imagine Murray winning the French

Why? Murray was runner up this year (winning 1 set) and his improvement over clay, particularly in the past 18 months, is well documented.

I don't know!

[PES Fan]

Worst year for Federer.

If he was a 100%, I am sure he would have got a slam this year. He rushed himself back for Wimbledon and Raionic was one too many match.

Murray has benefited from Djokovics slump. Luckily for him Federer and Nadal also picked up injuries. Nadal was starting to look good before RG and gets a wrist injury. Which is really the worst injury a tennis player can have.

Not discrediting Murray as somebody has had to have won these tournaments. But it would have been a lot harder if Federer and Nadal weren't injured. Federer especially has had the measure of Murray in their past few meetings. His only problem was how to deal with Djokovic.

And Murray would have had no chance if Bjorn Borg was 30 years younger.

Well that makes no sense. Federer and Nadal are active tennis players. Bjorg isn't.

Federer and Nadals biggest problem since 2011 has been Djokovic. Who has been super consistent since then up til June 2016. Federer when fit was beating most the players on the tour. He just couldn't beat Djokovic at his peak especially in grand slams. He's also beaten Murray the last 5 times they met. So it isn't outlandish to say he would have also benefited from Djokovics slump. And Rafa has beaten Murray 4 out of the last 6 times they met.

Federer is too old to be a serious contender against Murray (as is Borg), Nadal has declined due to injuries and Djokovic is not the player he was at the start of the year. None of those things are any more relevant to Murray's success than my Borg comment, Murray can only beat what is in front of him, the state of the other players is their problem not his.

I'm not arguing Federer is in decline. But he was still able to beat the rest of the field besides Djokovic. He lost Wimbledon, US open and ATP tour final all to Djokovic last year. He lost to him in the Australian open semi finals also. If Djokovic had a slump like he is having now, Federer may have won one of those events.

Djokovic in his last six months has been in the worst form that he has been in for maybe six or seven years. Losing to Querry at Wimbledon. Losing to Wawrinka at the US open, whilst Wawrinka had a few marathon matches and Djokovic had the easiest route to the final possible. Losing to Bautista in a event that he has never lost in. Losing to Cillic for the first time in 15 games.

It's not really surprising Murray has won the majority of the tournaments. Wawrinka and Nishikori are not consistent enough. Raonic isn't good enough. Federer and Nadal injured. Whilst Del Potro skipped a few of these events to prepare for Davis cup.

[Moggy]

Worst year for Federer.

If he was a 100%, I am sure he would have got a slam this year. He rushed himself back for Wimbledon and Raionic was one too many match.

Murray has benefited from Djokovics slump. Luckily for him Federer and Nadal also picked up injuries. Nadal was starting to look good before RG and gets a wrist injury. Which is really the worst injury a tennis player can have.

Not discrediting Murray as somebody has had to have won these tournaments. But it would have been a lot harder if Federer and Nadal weren't injured. Federer especially has had the measure of Murray in their past few meetings. His only problem was how to deal with Djokovic.

And Murray would have had no chance if Bjorn Borg was 30 years younger.

Well that makes no sense. Federer and Nadal are active tennis players. Bjorg isn't.

Federer and Nadals biggest problem since 2011 has been Djokovic. Who has been super consistent since then up til June 2016. Federer when fit was beating most the players on the tour. He just couldn't beat Djokovic at his peak especially in grand slams. He's also beaten Murray the last 5 times they met. So it isn't outlandish to say he would have also benefited from Djokovics slump. And Rafa has beaten Murray 4 out of the last 6 times they met.

Federer is too old to be a serious contender against Murray (as is Borg), Nadal has declined due to injuries and Djokovic is not the player he was at the start of the year. None of those things are any more relevant to Murray's success than my Borg comment, Murray can only beat what is in front of him, the state of the other players is their problem not his.

I'm not arguing Federer is in decline. But he was still able to beat the rest of the field besides Djokovic. He lost Wimbledon, US open and ATP tour final all to Djokovic last year. He lost to him in the Australian open semi finals also. If Djokovic had a slump like he is having now, Federer may have won one of those events.

Djokovic in his last six months has been in the worst form that he has been in for maybe six or seven years. Losing to Querry at Wimbledon. Losing to Wawrinka at the US open, whilst Wawrinka had a few marathon matches and Djokovic had the easiest route to the final possible. Losing to Bautista in a event that he has never lost in. Losing to Cillic for the first time in 15 games.

It's not really surprising Murray has won the majority of the tournaments. Wawrinka and Nishikori are not consistent enough. Raonic isn't good enough. Federer and Nadal injured. Whilst Del Potro skipped a few of these events.

And?

The best player in the world is always the one who is best at that time. At the moment that is Murray and it's not relevant how good Federer used to be or how Novak's form dropped or Nadal's dodgy knees.

[PES Fan]

Worst year for Federer.

If he was a 100%, I am sure he would have got a slam this year. He rushed himself back for Wimbledon and Raionic was one too many match.

Murray has benefited from Djokovics slump. Luckily for him Federer and Nadal also picked up injuries. Nadal was starting to look good before RG and gets a wrist injury. Which is really the worst injury a tennis player can have.

Not discrediting Murray as somebody has had to have won these tournaments. But it would have been a lot harder if Federer and Nadal weren't injured. Federer especially has had the measure of Murray in their past few meetings. His only problem was how to deal with Djokovic.

And Murray would have had no chance if Bjorn Borg was 30 years younger.

Well that makes no sense. Federer and Nadal are active tennis players. Bjorg isn't.

Federer and Nadals biggest problem since 2011 has been Djokovic. Who has been super consistent since then up til June 2016. Federer when fit was beating most the players on the tour. He just couldn't beat Djokovic at his peak especially in grand slams. He's also beaten Murray the last 5 times they met. So it isn't outlandish to say he would have also benefited from Djokovics slump. And Rafa has beaten Murray 4 out of the last 6 times they met.

Federer is too old to be a serious contender against Murray (as is Borg), Nadal has declined due to injuries and Djokovic is not the player he was at the start of the year. None of those things are any more relevant to Murray's success than my Borg comment, Murray can only beat what is in front of him, the state of the other players is their problem not his.

I'm not arguing Federer is in decline. But he was still able to beat the rest of the field besides Djokovic. He lost Wimbledon, US open and ATP tour final all to Djokovic last year. He lost to him in the Australian open semi finals also. If Djokovic had a slump like he is having now, Federer may have won one of those events.

Djokovic in his last six months has been in the worst form that he has been in for maybe six or seven years. Losing to Querry at Wimbledon. Losing to Wawrinka at the US open, whilst Wawrinka had a few marathon matches and Djokovic had the easiest route to the final possible. Losing to Bautista in a event that he has never lost in. Losing to Cillic for the first time in 15 games.

It's not really surprising Murray has won the majority of the tournaments. Wawrinka and Nishikori are not consistent enough. Raonic isn't good enough. Federer and Nadal injured. Whilst Del Potro skipped a few of these events.

And?

The best player in the world is always the one who is best at that time. At the moment that is Murray and it's not relevant how good Federer used to be or how Novak's form dropped or Nadal's dodgy knees.

Where did I say Murray isn't the best player currently?

I said Federer would be gutted to be injured in a time where Djokovic has lost his form as he lost four major finals to him in the past year. Federer might be old, but he was still blowing away Murray at Wimbledon and ATP finals last year.

It's not really surprising. Other three top players injured or out of form. Fourth most consistent player in the past decade is winning the tournaments. The rest of the players can't match the consistency these guys have.

[Pancake]

I think it comes across as a little mean-spirited to point out injuries to Nadal and Federer coinciding with Djokovic's slump in form as factors in Murray's achievement. You're not wrong but injuries are a factor every year and form is fleeting. I don't think it diminishes the achievement at all so it doesn't need to be said; Murray is not injured, Murray is in form, Murray is currently the best player in the world.

[Denster]

Djokovic has taken his eye off the ball and Murray has benefitted. Kudos to him for taking advantage.
We could have these 'what if' arguments all day.

Murray has finished strongly and is deservedly top dog. He must be kicking himself for not doing better at the US open.

[Hypes]

He's been the runner up so many times but Murray is absolutely the favourite to land the Australian Open now. Djokovic is the only player that could feasibly stop him over 5 sets and only he gets out of this slump then Murray will win down under. If he did, all that would be left is Roland Garros. If he managed to win both of those he'd have a career grand slam, Davis Cup, Olympic gold and the World Tour Finals victories under his belt. How many players have all of those?

Agassi

[Poncho]

I don't think it diminishes the achievement at all so it doesn't need to be said

Exactly, completely redundant 'analysis'. He may as well just say that Murray wouldn't be world number 1 if he hadn't won so many tournaments this year.

[Zellery]

How's this thread working out for you PES Fan?

[Moggy]

How's this thread working out for you PES Fan?

He'd have won the thread if everyone else didn't make better points.

[Denster]

strawberry float em PES.

You criticise murray - you get it at every opportunity from his white knights in here. The Murray Bitches can have their time in the sun.
fact is - he's deservedly top after that win yesterday and how strongly he's finished the year.

I'm still of the school of thought in Tennis that only counts Slams. No 1 ranking is great and so are olympic golds and The ATP trophy but it's the Slams that players are judged by historically. Murray needs to finish with more than 3. Otherwise he is well down the all time list. The key thing is can he now build on the success he has had. That starts with the Aussie open.


Going to be a good year next year. Murray looks well placed to do well. Big test for Djokovic to bounce back. I think he will. Could be epic.

[Snowcannon]

Worst year for Federer.

If he was a 100%, I am sure he would have got a slam this year. He rushed himself back for Wimbledon and Raionic was one too many match.

Murray has benefited from Djokovics slump. Luckily for him Federer and Nadal also picked up injuries. Nadal was starting to look good before RG and gets a wrist injury. Which is really the worst injury a tennis player can have.

Not discrediting Murray as somebody has had to have won these tournaments. But it would have been a lot harder if Federer and Nadal weren't injured. Federer especially has had the measure of Murray in their past few meetings. His only problem was how to deal with Djokovic.

You could also say Federer benefited from having no serious competition before Nadal became relevant outside of a clay court...

[Corazon de Leon]

strawberry float em PES.

You criticise murray - you get it at every opportunity from his white knights in here. The Murray Bitches can have their time in the sun.
fact is - he's deservedly top after that win yesterday and how strongly he's finished the year.

I'm still of the school of thought in Tennis that only counts Slams. No 1 ranking is great and so are olympic golds and The ATP trophy but it's the Slams that players are judged by historically. Murray needs to finish with more than 3. Otherwise he is well down the all time list. The key thing is can he now build on the success he has had. That starts with the Aussie open.


Going to be a good year next year. Murray looks well placed to do well. Big test for Djokovic to bounce back. I think he will. Could be epic.

I agree to an extent - I think that more recently(last decade or two) the ATP final and Olympic gold are becoming more recognised as milestone achievements, but it is important that Murray pushes on from this position. Another few slams - particularly in Australia - would be huge for him.

[Denster]

Worst year for Federer.

If he was a 100%, I am sure he would have got a slam this year. He rushed himself back for Wimbledon and Raionic was one too many match.

Murray has benefited from Djokovics slump. Luckily for him Federer and Nadal also picked up injuries. Nadal was starting to look good before RG and gets a wrist injury. Which is really the worst injury a tennis player can have.

Not discrediting Murray as somebody has had to have won these tournaments. But it would have been a lot harder if Federer and Nadal weren't injured. Federer especially has had the measure of Murray in their past few meetings. His only problem was how to deal with Djokovic.

You could also say Federer benefited from having no serious competition before Nadal became relevant outside of a clay court...

A very valid claim IMO.

[PES Fan]

How's this thread working out for you PES Fan?

Better than your contributions.

And Moggy yeah you made great points. I mean bringing up a player who hasn't played tennis for 30 years and comparing them to two players who are currently injured was a good point. It caught me off guard.

I agree with you Denster. World number 1 is a good achievement. But you see a lot of players in the women's game becoming number 1 yet we know Serena is the undisputed best.

If he doesn't kick on and add more than three slams then it will be a waste. Wawrinka is already on three slams. Hewitt won three slams. Murray is better than both of them and should really look to be doubling that.

And I'm not a Murray hater. All I was saying was Federer will be disappointed he got injured with Djokovic playing poorly.

The era Federer started in was a whole lot better than some of the players now. Roddick is a better version of Raionic and is the only person to have a positive record against Djokovic. Safin was a brilliant player and destroyed Sampras in a grand slam final. Hewitt and Nalbandian were good players.

[Snowcannon]

How's this thread working out for you PES Fan?

Better than your contributions.

And Moggy yeah you made great points. I mean bringing up a player who hasn't played tennis for 30 years and comparing them to two players who are currently injured was a good point. It caught me off guard.

I agree with you Denster. World number 1 is a good achievement. But you see a lot of players in the women's game becoming number 1 yet we know Serena is the undisputed best.

If he doesn't kick on and add more than three slams then it will be a waste. Wawrinka is already on three slams. Hewitt won three slams. Murray is better than both of them and should really look to be doubling that.

And I'm not a Murray hater. All I was saying was Federer will be disappointed he got injured with Djokovic playing poorly.

The era Federer started in was a whole lot better than some of the players now. Roddick is a better version of Raionic and is the only person to have a positive record against Djokovic. Safin was a brilliant player and destroyed Sampras in a grand slam final. Hewitt and Nalbandian were good players.

Hewitt actually only won two but agreed Murray can and should be winning more than three slams.

[Return_of_the_STAR]

Anyone watching the tennis? 1 set all. Qatar open. Sir Andy Murray v Djokovic.