The Wrestling Thread II: WrestleMania 33 - 7 HOURS

[Mafro]

[DML]

So in other words, terrible all night long.

Harry Potter was much higher than average. So no, you're not right.

The question was will WoS be given a second chance, and as someone who stares at TV viewing figures every day I would say almost definitely not, considering theres a definite massive dip in viewership AND it was quite heavily advertised.

Unfortuantely, overall those ratings are not actually bad for the other shows. Not great...but not bad. Not many shows get above 3million these days.

[captain red dog]

Heavily advertised where though? If the bulk of the advertising was on ITV and people aren't watching ITV then it basically has no advertising. I only knew it was on because of the thread title!

Don't get me wrong, I think the chances of it getting picked up are slim at best but like KK says with a bit of tweaking there may be a case that they could grow it with certain demographics. There were a number of issues with the scheduling in that it wasn't really an ideal time to launch a new show and the lead in and following programs are kind of established already.

Davey Smith had botch of the night though for going for the pin in the battle royal!

[Johnny Ryall]

You think that was a botch? That's like a rumble trope by now.

[Irene Demova]

Anyone else gonna be watching Wrestle Kingdom 11? Next Wednesday at 8am our time.

Pre-show Rumble
Tiger Mask W vs. Tiger The Dark
IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag-Team Championship: The Young Bucks (c) vs Roppongi Vice
NEVER Openweight Six-Man Tag-Team Championship Gauntlet Match: Satoshi Kojima, Ricochet, & David Finlay (c) vs. LIdJ (SANADA/EVIL/BUSHI) vs. CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii/Will Ospreay/YOSHI-HASHI) vs. Bullet Club (Hangman Page/Yujiro Takahashi/Bad Luck Fale)
Special Singles Match: Juice Robinson (formerly CJ Parker from NXT) vs. Cody Rhodes
RoH World Championship: Kyle O'Reilly (c) vs. Adam Cole
IWGP Tag-Team Championship: Guerillas of Destiny (c) vs. Great Bash Heel
IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship: KUSHIDA (c) vs. Hiromu Takahashi
NEVER Openweight Championship: Katsuyori Shibata (c) vs. Hirooki Goto
IWGP Intercontinental Championship: Tetsuya Naito (c) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi
IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Kenny Omega

Last two year's events have been substantially better than Wrestlemania and I'm really looking forward to it.

I'll probably download it after

Shibata/Goto should be great

[KK]

SmackDown firing on all cylinders these past 20 minutes. So good.

I find it kinda strange how they've opted to make SD the edgier show to RAW, especially as it concludes earlier.

Tonight, they insinuated Nikka Bella sucked off Bret Hart just so she could get a complementary photo with him on Twitter.

[DML]

Heavily advertised where though? If the bulk of the advertising was on ITV and people aren't watching ITV then it basically has no advertising. I only knew it was on because of the thread title!

Don't get me wrong, I think the chances of it getting picked up are slim at best but like KK says with a bit of tweaking there may be a case that they could grow it with certain demographics. There were a number of issues with the scheduling in that it wasn't really an ideal time to launch a new show and the lead in and following programs are kind of established already.

Davey Smith had botch of the night though for going for the pin in the battle royal!

People were watching ITV. Indeed for parts of the evening when the wrestling wasn't on it was the most watched channel in the UK. Let's stop pretending no one watches it.

The problem is its ITV who have to open its purse to buy a new series. I think they would need to be somehow already invested to continue, which is unlikely but not impossible.

[Mafro]

Anyone else gonna be watching Wrestle Kingdom 11? Next Wednesday at 8am our time.

Pre-show Rumble
Tiger Mask W vs. Tiger The Dark
IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag-Team Championship: The Young Bucks (c) vs Roppongi Vice
NEVER Openweight Six-Man Tag-Team Championship Gauntlet Match: Satoshi Kojima, Ricochet, & David Finlay (c) vs. LIdJ (SANADA/EVIL/BUSHI) vs. CHAOS (Tomohiro Ishii/Will Ospreay/YOSHI-HASHI) vs. Bullet Club (Hangman Page/Yujiro Takahashi/Bad Luck Fale)
Special Singles Match: Juice Robinson (formerly CJ Parker from NXT) vs. Cody Rhodes
RoH World Championship: Kyle O'Reilly (c) vs. Adam Cole
IWGP Tag-Team Championship: Guerillas of Destiny (c) vs. Great Bash Heel
IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship: KUSHIDA (c) vs. Hiromu Takahashi
NEVER Openweight Championship: Katsuyori Shibata (c) vs. Hirooki Goto
IWGP Intercontinental Championship: Tetsuya Naito (c) vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi
IWGP Heavyweight Championship: Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Kenny Omega

Last two year's events have been substantially better than Wrestlemania and I'm really looking forward to it.

I'll probably download it after

Shibata/Goto should be great

The top four matches have potential to be fantastic.

The Young Bucks coming out with four tag titles each and were calling out Broken Matt Hardy

[KK]

People were watching ITV. Indeed for parts of the evening when the wrestling wasn't on it was the most watched channel in the UK. Let's stop pretending no one watches it.

So for what parts of the evening would this be then...

[DML]

People were watching ITV. Indeed for parts of the evening when the wrestling wasn't on it was the most watched channel in the UK. Let's stop pretending no one watches it.

So for what parts of the evening would this be then...

During Harry Potter later that evening. The rest of the evening it was the second most watched channel except when WoS Wrestling was on when it fell into third/fourth behind BBC2 and C4.

I mean I have the full ratings sat in front of me.

Its never good if ITV starts falling behind BBC2/C4. I'm sure the wrestling community on large may not have found the show, but its ITV who have to stump up the cash for a full series.

[KK]

Well we can all see the ratings, along with the 15 minute breakdowns, because they're accessible to everyone, but not 1 programme on ITV averaged a better performance than BBC1 for the entire night, even when you factor in ITV +1.

BBC1

Peter Pan goes Wrong: 2.63 (14.2% share)
Pointless: 3.76 (21%)
Casualty: 3.55 (20.4%)
Mrs Brown's Boys: 3.24 (19.1%)
Graham Norton Show: 3.78 (23.5%)
Robbie Rocks Big Ben Live: 6.06 (37.1%)
Robbie Rocks (post fireworks): 6.64 (47.9%)

ITV

WOS Wrestling: 1.25 (7.3% share)
Ninja Warrior UK: 2.08 (11.4%)
Take Me Out Celebrities: 2.12 (11.9%)
Harry Potter: 2.82 (17.1%)

No one is denying WOS underperformed, but ITV's ratings are terrible. It was a bad night for ITV on a channel that regularly has bad nights.

[Mafro]

That Wrestle Kingdom 11 main event was fantastic, one of the best match I've seen in years. Four days into January and it's hard to see anything beating that for match of the year.

[DML]

Well we can all see the ratings, along with the 15 minute breakdowns, because they're accessible to everyone, but not 1 programme on ITV averaged a better performance than BBC1 for the entire night, even when you factor in ITV +1.

BBC1

Peter Pan goes Wrong: 2.63 (14.2% share)
Pointless: 3.76 (21%)
Casualty: 3.55 (20.4%)
Mrs Brown's Boys: 3.24 (19.1%)
Graham Norton Show: 3.78 (23.5%)
Robbie Rocks Big Ben Live: 6.06 (37.1%)
Robbie Rocks (post fireworks): 6.64 (47.9%)

ITV

WOS Wrestling: 1.25 (7.3% share)
Ninja Warrior UK: 2.08 (11.4%)
Take Me Out Celebrities: 2.12 (11.9%)
Harry Potter: 2.82 (17.1%)

No one is denying WOS underperformed, but ITV's ratings are terrible. It was a bad night for ITV on a channel that regularly has bad nights.

As i said, parts of Harry Potter beat BBC1 without taking into account ITV+1. That said, its quite normal for ITV not to win unless they have one of their big hitters on. Whilst not a great night for ITV it was not exactly a disaster as is being made out. Indeed for much of Harry Potter, the ratings were up over 25% on their average ratings throughout the year for that slot.

The problem is is WOS isn't being compared to the other programmes on ITV really, its being compared to how it performs against other shows, and theres no question that it performed badly. It was down more than 25% on its slot on average over most of the shows run. I am just saying regards how recommisioning works, is commisoners need a lot of convincing, and those stats are really not in its favour. Please don't forget this is my job! I do know what I'm talking about.

All I am saying is in my opinion (I know we live in a post-experts world but y'know - c'mon!) ITV would need top be somehow already invested in a series they've already paid for it, an expensive already made or something) for them to persue this.

The truth of the matter is TV ratings are down across the board. What some may see as a 'bad night for ITV' in most cases is now actually quite a good night! People seem to think the average show still gets 5-6 million, which couldnt be further from the truth. I remember asking people the other day how high they though Deal Or No Deal gets, and they were shocked when I told them it was only 200,000. I think they were expecting me to say millions.

[KK]

I don't know what the demographics were for WOS, it may have played well with an audience ITV desperately want to attract. It could also be the type of show that does very well on the ITV Hub & on-demand. ITV may want wrestling back on the air, they may want it on ITV4...there are many variables nobody knows the answer to yet. Pro wrestling has a long history of never quite working in the same way as other television programming for a multitude of reasons. There could be a Ted Turner type figure currently sat at ITV who suddenly wants wrestling again. I mean there is clearly something there as this is the second time they've brought it back in recent years - the first one was taped under the guise of the old format from Fairfield Halls and destined to run on ITV4, but ITV didn't like the way it looked so it was binned and later put out on YouTube.

Wrestling fans are loyal like nobody else. I don't know if ITV are aware of that, but it takes some immense fuckery to run them off. If ITV A) believe in wrestling again & B) think a large percentage of those that have watched WOS will come back, you've got yourself a Top 5 rated show on ITV4. There is incredible leeway to shed that audience and still be the most popular show on ITV4. I don't think in its current guise it's suitable for ITV4 (it's too glossy & Saturday night) but there is also a lot of cross-over appeal with the darts which they run on that station too. There are many positives in that WOS rating, but it's going to depend on how ITV see it. Because to me WOS Wrestling was currently presented & produced in a slightly different way to what a wrestling show would normally be. This was clearly something destined for a 4-7pm window, for families, on Saturday or Sunday night. It was cheesier & overtly pre-taped in a way not seen in wrestling on TV since 1993. If ITV wanted a show to attract a certain audience at a certain time, rather than the wrestling itself, it may have failed.

I mean ITV have just brought back ITV Racing for the first time in something like 32 years - costs a fortune, is Live, requires cameras all over the country, eats up hours of TV time, and will never come close to topping a million outside of the big events like National, Derby etc.

I have my fingers crossed someone at ITV understands wrestling because it's very exciting if they do. But IMPACT WRESTLING was routinely one of Challenge's most popular shows, bouncing around from Number 1 through 10, and it was cancelled because it simply didn't fit with the direction of the station any more. The ratings didn't matter whatsoever. Sky just didn't want it.

[Mafro]

[Return_of_the_STAR]

Just watched raw, interesting to see the Goldberg and Jericho interaction after all the years of talk of them hating each other.

[DML]

KKLEIN -

Demographics, social media presence and price are all major factors other than ratings, but make no qualms about it, while other factors are considered, ratings are king.

A flagging show or an average launch can be saved by hitting the right demos or being talked about on Twitter, but it won't get an outright ratings flop commissioned, which sadly this was. Robot Wars for instance had fairly okay ratings, but an undoubted recommission thanks to social media and hitting good demos. However it had some ratings to back it up.

The only way this will get a series I have already said is if they are somehow already financially committed to the project. No show is getting commissioned on the back of a pilot in prime time on ITV1 getting only 1.2 million.

I really do know TV ratings really well and fight for commisions on a daily basis so I'd like to think I know my stuff! Obviously I hope you get your recommission but it would be one that would raise many eyebrows in TV.

[shadow202]

So wrestling, yeah?

[Fade]

Where can I watch Wrestle Kingdom 11/ >_>

[Slimgrady]

I wonder if WWE will go after Mike Goldberg now that he's gone from UFC, he'd be a nice change from Michael Cole. Only thing is Mauro Ronallo and he sound quite similar. Funny that UFC have now signed Todd Grisham as an announcer, I always thought he was alright, had potential.