Last Night BBC2: Steve Jobs: Billion Dollar Hippy 9-10pm

Yeah I feel sad that I'm not a member of the fucktard club. Maybe I should buy childrens' toys as they are so much easier to use than my Xbox 360. I don't feel that Microsoft is treating me like a fucktard enough.

Last edited by Cal on Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

FEstive FEast wrote:Things are worse in other areas on other platforms, but Apple devices certainty aren't much more 'simple' or intuitive than the alternatives.

I've spent years working in design studios with Macs and PC's and I can absolutely back you up on that one. If one of our PC's go down I'm usually able to sort the bugger out - not so with the Macs. You just feel f*cked. It's an opaque OS with no friendly way in for the less technical user to try and sort stuff out. In the end it was this, above all other considerations that made me migrate fully to Windows. I just like running a network that I can at least attempt to fix and have some idea of what is going on beneath the bonnet.

I doubt I will ever buy another Mac - yeah, yeah, they are beautiful objects and sure they win all sorts of design prizes, but I'm more concerned about value-for-money and my confidence in being able to fix any problems that come along. Performance-wise, there are no arguments left to be had between the two platforms. As a graphic designer who doesn't use Macs any longer all I can say is that by switching to Windowss I've not noticed one instance where I've thought 'oh, if only I was on a Mac, this would have been so much easier!'.

It doesn't happen, just another foolish urban myth put about Old Street 'nu-media' trendies more concerned with carrying the right logos on their shoulder bags.

Having used both, I don't feel that Mac's are any easier to use than Windows PCs.

Cal wrote:I've spent years working in design studios with Macs and PC's and I can absolutely back you up on that one. If one of our PC's go down I'm usually able to sort the bugger out - not so with the Macs. You just feel f*cked. It's an opaque OS with no friendly way in for the less technical user to try and sort stuff out. In the end it was this, above all other considerations that made me migrate fully to Windows. I just like running a network that I can at least attempt to fix and have some idea of what is going on beneath the bonnet.

Never used Time Machine? Or restored from a Time Machine backup?

But Cal how will you be creative without a Mac?

You can write books or use photoshop on a PC.

Samsung made an amusing advert on their take to the loyal Apple fans.

Time Machine has saved me several times :wub:

FEstive FEast wrote:But Cal how will you be creative without a Mac? You can write books or use photoshop on a PC.

I have no idea, especially since all my PC's seem to be happily running the entire Adobe Creative Suite (including Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Flash and Fireworks) with no problems at all. And when I've put together design files using a heretical Windows machine, those same files can be passed back to the London office and loaded up on their Mac systems and - wonder of wonders - it makes no difference at all! :lol:

Stephen Fry was talking absolute, utter, utter, utter...UTTER bullshit. But I guess when you're a multimillionaire the grossly inflated cost of buying into the Apple brand makes no odds. PCs are for the 'poor' people as far as he's concerned, and, of course, those with no 'taste'.

Miaaaw wrote:Which is completely fine and your choice. Personally I've used OS X for long enough I now find it easier to fix than Windows... (It does help that it's quite similar to Linux, whereas I have no idea how to even ssh on a Windows machine.)

Well, you wouldn't really need to with a Windows PC. You'd just use the Remote assist/Desktop feature. Although, you're not going to fix Windows PCs from a command line, and you can't install apps from a command line, and you can't do all that other stuff from a command line either. So in that respect Mac's are more powerful if you know your stuff. And I haven't even started talking about Applescript yet.

Website

Hidden orange Christmas pudding wrote:Samsung made an amusing advert on their take to the loyal Apple fans.

At the moment manufacturers have a fascination with big screens, I doubt that's what the public want. Once tablets become more common their won't be as big a demand for a phone with big screens.

I want a full featured smartphone that is tiny. Maybe we'll see them in 3 years time.

Actually, what I want is a phone in two or three parts. The screen and the phone handset would be peripherals. That way you could turn your phone into a tablet just by plugging it into a bigger display in the house. Same device, same apps, same files. Just a bigger screen.

Then, a detachable handset for calls, maybe about the size of a USB key. You'd answer the phone, or dial out, by disconnecting the handset from the phone.

well i watched it this morning, farily interesting, still have no care for apple products, i do like their ad in the 80's of IBM being like the movie 1984, the fact they've being the same thing but instead of comcrete and steel they are glass and aluminium.

Miaaaw wrote:
Cal wrote:I just like running a network that I can at least attempt to fix and have some idea of what is going on beneath the bonnet.

Which is completely fine and your choice. Personally I've used OS X for long enough I now find it easier to fix than Windows... (It does help that it's quite similar to Linux, whereas I have no idea how to even ssh on a Windows machine.).

I don't THINK Windows has an SSH client built in. It did used to have a Telnet client, but that got taken out with Win 7 I think. There's quite a few popular SSH clients available, though, like Putty.

Windows doesn't really have a Unix terminal architecture underlying everything though. The closest thing is the Command Prompt, and that seems to become more depreciated with every release.

i await the inevitable Imovie about him.

in his older years he did have a head much the same shape as an Egg, i noticed that about him.

TheTurnipKing wrote:
Miaaaw wrote:
Cal wrote:I just like running a network that I can at least attempt to fix and have some idea of what is going on beneath the bonnet.

Which is completely fine and your choice. Personally I've used OS X for long enough I now find it easier to fix than Windows... (It does help that it's quite similar to Linux, whereas I have no idea how to even ssh on a Windows machine.).

I don't THINK Windows has an SSH client built in. It did used to have a Telnet client, but that got taken out with Win 7 I think. There's quite a few popular SSH clients available, though, like Putty.

Windows doesn't really have a Unix terminal architecture underlying everything though. The closest thing is the Command Prompt, and that seems to become more depreciated with every release.

Vista had an improved command line line. It's also possible to use ssh by default from the command line out of the box at least with ultimate.

I'm pretty sure SSH isn't in Home Premium. Though I think it's possible to reenable it.

Or, y'know, get PuTTY.

But there's a distinction to be made between an SSH client, and being able to log into your machine with an SSH client.

Steve wrote:If you pay a building contractor to build you a house and one of the builders dies on site, it's not your problem as such is it?

Here is a man who knows nothing of CDM regulations! For anything larger than a small domestic project (which you couldn't say for Apple if you were attempting to draw a parallel) it absolutely is, morally and legally*.

If it wasn't for the client's money, a worker wouldn't be in those locations or conditions. The client's demands put them there and they have an obligation to ensure their welfare - blaming a contractor is scandalously morally corrupt.

*For the building example in the UK, I'm sure USA and/or international law is more finicky.

Miaaaw wrote:it seems to me that you just refuse to see it both ways, or at least won't humour the argument.

Some people love the "Apple experience". For others, it just makes our brain itch.

From a previous Mac user who has directly (and indirectly through family) been around Macs for about 6 years I’ve had mixed feeling about Apple products (note, while I’m a gadget person I’m not a techie person and consider myself more of a casual user than some techie savant):

Pros:

Ease of use – Since we bought my dad an iPad I’ve only had to go over and sort things out for him twice. Compared to when Vista was his main OS this is a godsend.

Attractiveness – Yes it’s a shallow reason but Macs do like nice. I loved my Macbook Air. That said you can easily get nice looking PCs these days too.

Nice OS – Although it took a while to get used to I did get on well with Snow Leopard.

Dedicated shops: It is nice to be able to go into the nearest Apple store and get tech support rather than be fobbed off from pillar to post in other shops

Cons

Build Quality – Everyone says how much better the build quality is (usually as a defence against the cost). In my experience Apple build Quality is horrible. My brothers first Macbook burnt out – twice (I forget the exact problem as it was a few years ago). This was 18 months after he bought it. His current Macbooks battery died after a year, just refused to charge. His Desktops DVD drive doesn’t work. My Macbook Airs motherboard died after 9 months. I had it fixed. Two months later it went again, I had to wait 3 weeks to get it back because during the course of repairing it the keyboard and the trackpad went (no one at the shop updated me I had to phone for updates). Since then the motherboard has gone again. I have never had these sorts of problems when using a PC. Ever

Synching with iTunes – ‘Just Works’? It didn’t when I bought my dad his IPad. He has no interest in iTunes and is not a techie person. When he unwrapped his present he was over the moon. When he couldn’t use it til I got home from work and create an iTunes account (that he’ll never use) not so impressed.

Expense – Having bought a Mac I didn’t feel it was massive value for money. Having bought an Asus Transformer + keyboard for about the same price as a similarly specced iPad one, well I know which I personally think is better value for money.

General thoughts:

My non-techie family found it just as easy to work with Mac OS or Windows. Apples’ OS was no easier (or harder) for them

Likewise my Android tablet doesn’t suddenly stump my dad after he’s been working with iOS. For him Android ‘Just Works’ as much as iOS does.

So, yeah, Apple: Has some good points, has some pad points but would never buy another Apple product for myself.

Last Night BBC2: Steve Jobs: Billion Dollar Hippy 9-10pm

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